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this gcn program brought to you by

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frederick remington fully cooked bacon

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the thickest meatiest center cut bacon

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in the industry available at

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fullycookedbacon.com that's

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[Music]

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so

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you're in the paracast the gold standard

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of paranormal radio

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and now

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now sometime back we kind of said we're

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not going to talk about roswell

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much or at all in the paracast

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and that was after we had kevin randall

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talking about his book roswell in the

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21st century where he kind of recanted

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certainties about roswell

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such as whether

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alien bodies were seen in connection

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with the crashed

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object

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and also whether it was a spaceship

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so his contention that something

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happened but we may never find out what

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and then we go back to our old friend

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nick redfern now nick

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has written 40 books

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and that's just since last week

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and back in 2005 he wrote a book called

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body snatchers in the desert

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a totally different picture of roswell

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and at the time

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a lot of it was dismissed

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now since then he's taken all the

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evidence he didn't put in that book and

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additional evidence and he's assembled a

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new book that we're going to talk about

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in our next segment called the roswell

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ufo conspiracy exposing a shocking

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and sinister secret

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sinister we're going to find out what

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nick redfearn has to say

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in the meantime neighbors if you

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subscribe to the powercast plus we have

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something real special for you this week

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there is a retired college professor and

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accountant by the name of monty shriver

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a guy who grew up

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in aztec new mexico

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and he's an older guy

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fellow in his 80s but he is bright

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he has a great memory of what

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happened and let's just paint this

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picture here

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so

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in 1948 he's like 13 14 years old he

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lived in aztec then

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went to high school in aztec

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lived his life for the next 52 years

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and never

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heard anything about a ufo crash at hart

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canyon in aztec new mexico

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and then he visits his mom in 2000

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and he hears about this

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aztec ufo symposium

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and what's this about

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so he and his wife spent a year doing

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research

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and most of you probably heard

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at least the basics of this he did do an

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article a long article

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for kevin randle's different perspective

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blog

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but the key is that he

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checked the three books published

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about

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aztec behind the flying saucers from

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frank scully the book from william

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steinman and wendell stevens back in

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1986 in the book from scott and suzanne

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ramsey

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and he couldn't verify the witnesses

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he went back to his class reunion monte

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shriver did

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and

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nobody

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the people he went to school with in

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aztec new mexico nobody remembered a

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flying saucer crash

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is that the end of it chris

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well i've always been kind of doubtful

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to put it mildly um about any sort of

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crash it has and

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i think that this this does it puts a

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big spike in the uh in the coffin i i

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don't think it's the final um nail but i

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do think it pretty much does close the

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door on at least in my mind it does

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well of course we know that our friend

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paul kimball has referred to the aztec

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case as ufology's dracula

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you know and i think of the scene from

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one of the old dracula movies where john

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carradine played dracula and he has a

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stake in his heart

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and as soon as the mad scientist pulls

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the stake out he comes back to life

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i think that's what he means about it

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being ufology's dracula i just wonder

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though why

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it appears that stanton friedman

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still believes in naztech

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i'm kind of concerned about that yeah

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that's about

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a concern i have about stan i like him

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i've known the guy for several decades

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but i don't know that he's ever actually

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recanted anything

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do you

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no once he's uh once he's taken a

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position he's

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he's like a mori eel or a pit bull he

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does not let go

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well i like that metaphor there well you

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know it's good to be

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dedicated to

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whatever you're researching

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but it's certainly good also to take all

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these cases that aren't passing muster

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and set them aside

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and certainly i think it's long past its

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usefulness for research aztec

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it's gotta go away now roswell is

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another thing

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something happened there

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people remember something happening

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there

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of what happened

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there was obviously a newspaper story

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about a flying disc and then later it's

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just a balloon

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with aztec

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in 1948

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in a town of 800 people there was a

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weekly newspaper

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and you know in a town that size

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nobody can breathe too hard without

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people knowing about it and nobody knew

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about this obviously in roswell there

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were tons of stories and that's almost

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the problem too there were so many

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stories to sort out

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that i don't know

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it was very very difficult

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then of course the other thing we

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haven't really gone into too much

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a couple of years back we had james

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carrion

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the author of a book called the rosetta

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deception about the ghost rockets in

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world war ii

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at the time he said he was working on a

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book called the roswell deception

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and i suppose he meant

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that the roswell was a cover

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the roswell flying

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disc episode was a cover for some sort

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of intelligence thing

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that happened at that time

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but unfortunately

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i haven't heard from him since he was

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booked to be on the power cast by the

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way carry on

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and

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never responded after saying i have a

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family issue can't show up have you seen

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any stuff from him on facebook at all he

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seems to have vanished no i haven't um

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also albert rosalie's there's another

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one too that

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kind of ducked this

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right i've been in touch with rosales a

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few times and said come on the power

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cast let's

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catch up here's yeah i'll do it and i'll

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do it

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september and september he doesn't

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respond and you wonder about people like

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that

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now

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there is a family issue that's

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serious and i don't want to make any

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prejudgments there so i just hope we do

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hear from him because

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roswell is not to me at all of interest

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as a ufo case i don't think of it as a

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ufo case anymore i was skeptical over

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the years

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but i think if there's any intelligence

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aspect there and a better way to

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understand

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what our military and what our

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government was up to

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after world war ii

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and if there's a key to that

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in roswell would be nice to know

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i also wonder what

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degree

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the ufo mystery is influenced by that

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think about how many cases that we heard

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about may have been the result of test

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aircraft disinformation i'm not saying

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people don't see ufos

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but certainly at that time a lot of

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things were going on did you ever think

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for example chris if we didn't have a

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kenneth arnold sighting

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where the ufo mystery would be now if at

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all

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well

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i think there was enough going on there

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that uh that end of june beginning of

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july where um there were quite a number

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of sightings up and down the west coast

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and

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had a

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hands that would have you know made the

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public

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awareness but i don't think it would

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have been uh

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as dramatic um as as it was with the uh

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the advent of the mount rainier um

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crescent siding by arnold

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but um i definitely think there would

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still be there would still be a public

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face to the mystery but it would be

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it probably would have unfolded a little

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differently

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we wouldn't call them flying saucers

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probably not

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because that was good and bad

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it was good because it gave something

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for the public to seize on

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ah discs in the sky spaceships whatever

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but if we didn't call them

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flying saucers then

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would have gained the public's attention

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who knows and remember

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what hangs

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the case with kenneth arnold

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as an unknown is the alleged speed of

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the craft

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1200 miles an hour

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if it was a lot left it could have been

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a test aircraft of some sort who knows

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in any case live excitement coming up

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next and i'll ask him about

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aztec just in passing

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i can't wait to get a copy of the new

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book mine hasn't arrived yet so i

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i'm going to be going into this blind

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but i'm really looking forward to it

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i got mine yesterday maybe the post

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office doesn't like you out there you

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know out there in the wilderness but

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we'll cover a lot of things it's going

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to be fascinating with gene and chris

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we also have swag you know we have all

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these exclusive power cast things that

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you can buy we've got like i guess 60 or

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so different items and entails t-shirts

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sleeves for notebook computers ipad

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cases mouse pads the power cast jumbo

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tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

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jackets and stuff like that for men and

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women we have a power cast aluminum

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water bottle all this stuff you go to

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store dot the powercast.com

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store.thepowercast.com what makes it

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special is that the items are the best

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quality of great t-shirts fabrics and

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they have our official logo on them

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that's what makes them special in

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multiple sizes and colors we even have

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that's news

373
00:14:27,509 --> 00:14:24,399
cast dot com and don't forget to visit

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our famous paracast community forums at

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forum.theparacast.com

376
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[Music]

377
00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:34,320
well let's just put this way the last

378
00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:36,320
two times that nick redfern was on the

379
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,320
power cast chris

380
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:40,560
could make it for different reasons

381
00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:42,639
maybe one of that was his illness and

382
00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:44,880
everything but finally chris had to do

383
00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:47,680
all sorts of different things to get

384
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:50,480
back to his home office in time to be

385
00:14:56,230 --> 00:14:54,320
here for nick you should be honored

386
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:56,240
okay well there we go you see he had

387
00:14:59,890 --> 00:14:58,720
nothing to say oh i thought you were

388
00:15:03,430 --> 00:14:59,900
talking to the audience

389
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:03,440
[Laughter]

390
00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:04,880
no it's cool that he's back on the show

391
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,720
again yeah it's uh yeah because you're

392
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:08,720
like a double act you know what i mean

393
00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:10,160
it's you know it's like in the old days

394
00:15:13,030 --> 00:15:11,920
of martin and lewis it didn't make it

395
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:13,040
until

396
00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:16,720
well i'll tell you what really failed

397
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:19,040
was absent costello avenue and castella

398
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:21,600
were nothing when they broke up they had

399
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:23,760
no careers or anything just

400
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:25,680
totally lost everything but anyway we're

401
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:27,440
not having a costello but seriously

402
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:30,000
speaking here before we go on with

403
00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:32,000
your book of some years back i think

404
00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:34,959
2005 was it body snatchers in the desert

405
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:36,800
i want to ask you quickly

406
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:38,959
here in light of

407
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:40,560
a special interview we did with after

408
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:42,320
the power cast you're familiar with a

409
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:44,320
guy named monty shriver

410
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:46,399
monty shriver no

411
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:47,920
okay he

412
00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:50,480
is a retired college professor

413
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:53,360
who lived in aztec new mexico

414
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:56,000
in 1948

415
00:15:59,670 --> 00:15:58,000
and he researched

416
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:59,680
that case

417
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:01,440
because he didn't know anything about it

418
00:16:06,550 --> 00:16:04,800
he didn't learn about the case to 2000

419
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:06,560
and he grew up there

420
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:09,040
and he basically determined that

421
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:10,560
all the evidence

422
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:13,519
for aztec could not be verified

423
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:16,399
shock horror i would never have guessed

424
00:16:20,949 --> 00:16:18,800
there we go

425
00:16:23,829 --> 00:16:20,959
he says with tongue firmly planted in

426
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:23,839
cheek

427
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:25,360
that was fun you should listen to it

428
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:28,480
i'll get you the link in any case

429
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:31,600
body snatchers in the desert i think

430
00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:33,120
caught

431
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:34,639
a lot of people in the ufo field

432
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:36,560
flat-footed because it had been the

433
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:39,120
contention of so many people that

434
00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:41,360
the roswell crash involved a spaceship

435
00:16:45,269 --> 00:16:43,839
that there were bodies of aliens seen in

436
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:45,279
connection with the case and everything

437
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:46,079
else

438
00:16:50,470 --> 00:16:48,240
body snatchers in the desert

439
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:50,480
took them in a fascinating direction

440
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:52,720
could you give us a brief overview

441
00:16:57,910 --> 00:16:55,519
well yeah the book came out 12 years ago

442
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:57,920
and um it was one that is sort of very

443
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:00,079
controversial and the reason why it was

444
00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:02,240
so controversial is because ufology has

445
00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:04,400
sort of elevated roswell

446
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:07,120
to sort of almost um

447
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:09,600
supernatural holy levels you know it's

448
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:12,240
like the the case not to be messed with

449
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:13,919
it's the one that could make or break

450
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:16,640
ufology and so when you question it

451
00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:18,480
that's why there was so much controversy

452
00:17:23,029 --> 00:17:20,640
not just about the you know the theme of

453
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:23,039
the story which is because you dare into

454
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:25,760
question roswell but the the theme of

455
00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:29,039
the book was um an explanation for

456
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:30,559
roswell which

457
00:17:36,549 --> 00:17:33,039
didn't have a mundane explanation but

458
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:36,559
had a theory at its heart which arguably

459
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:39,600
would have been as justifiable in terms

460
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:42,000
of hiding the truth as it would be if if

461
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:44,080
it was a ufo that came down

462
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:47,840
and he basically revolved around um

463
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:50,400
immediate post-war activity second world

464
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:51,760
war activity

465
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,400
when you had like for example the german

466
00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:56,640
paper clip scientists coming over to new

467
00:18:01,510 --> 00:17:59,600
mexico interestingly enough and you know

468
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:01,520
continuing their rocketry work there and

469
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:04,880
high altitude experiments but also

470
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:07,919
bringing over uh what we call sort of a

471
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:10,160
even more clandestine japanese

472
00:18:16,789 --> 00:18:12,960
equivalence of um

473
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,799
of paper clip and the japanese were sort

474
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:18,240
of at the end of the second world war

475
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:21,840
they were working on massive uh balloons

476
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:23,919
man balloons that had the war not ended

477
00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:25,919
they were planning on using to attack

478
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:28,240
the united states and a lot of these

479
00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:30,480
plans for these massive balloons which

480
00:18:35,029 --> 00:18:32,720
would have sort of gliders attached to

481
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:35,039
them sort of kamikaze type thing

482
00:18:39,750 --> 00:18:37,440
um we're all brought over as well and so

483
00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:39,760
you have this situation where your

484
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:42,640
german scientists japanese scientists

485
00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:45,120
working in new mexico and in some of

486
00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:47,840
these experiments which were reportedly

487
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:51,520
early high altitude exposure experiments

488
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:53,600
the line was crossed where in some of

489
00:18:58,390 --> 00:18:56,000
these large balloon arrays which didn't

490
00:19:00,150 --> 00:18:58,400
have um didn't have pilots as such but

491
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:00,160
they were sort of guinea pig human

492
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:03,280
guinea pig um crews if that's if that's

493
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:05,200
even the right term but people just

494
00:19:11,110 --> 00:19:07,520
placed on board to see what the effects

495
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:11,120
would be and reportedly they got um

496
00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:13,760
some of them were japanese people others

497
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:16,240
were handicapped people people taken

498
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:19,600
from asylums and hospitals and used in

499
00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:21,760
what in simple terms would be early

500
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:25,039
human experimentation not unlike the

501
00:19:28,870 --> 00:19:27,360
radiation experiments that the clinton

502
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:28,880
administration

503
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:31,760
investigated and tried to get to the

504
00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:35,280
bottom of in the early 1990s um so very

505
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:37,760
kind of a similar parallel sort of you

506
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:38,559
know

507
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:41,760
abuses of power and um and abuses of

508
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:44,000
people in these in these sort of dark

509
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:45,919
and disturbing experiments and that

510
00:19:50,950 --> 00:19:48,720
reportedly a number of these

511
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:50,960
sort of devices craft crashed in new

512
00:19:55,830 --> 00:19:53,840
mexico one of them on the foster ranch

513
00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:55,840
in lincoln county which became known as

514
00:20:00,549 --> 00:19:57,600
the roswell incident

515
00:20:04,150 --> 00:20:00,559
and that the bodies that were found were

516
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:04,160
not extraterrestrial but a variety in

517
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:06,880
some cases in these crashes around new

518
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,200
mexico or in new mexico in 47 various

519
00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:11,280
ones that some of them as i said had

520
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:13,520
these handicapped people on board others

521
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:16,000
had japanese personnel piloting these

522
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:18,400
things so it was a it was like a a wide

523
00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:20,640
array of various experiments but all

524
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:23,840
under one banner one program and i

525
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:26,000
interviewed um

526
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:29,200
five or six old timers for the book

527
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:32,159
who basically told the story as they

528
00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:34,960
recalled it and as they were told

529
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:36,000
um

530
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:39,039
and i then sort of added to that with

531
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:41,600
background information on the various

532
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:43,120
you know what we know for sure in terms

533
00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:45,039
of japanese balloons and paper clip and

534
00:20:48,549 --> 00:20:46,320
that kind of thing

535
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:48,559
so you know that's basically the the

536
00:20:52,630 --> 00:20:50,400
thrust of it and the new book the

537
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:52,640
roswell ufo conspiracy

538
00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:55,600
essentially is um brings the book up to

539
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:57,280
date it's sort of the material that's

540
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,159
come through in the last 12 years since

541
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:02,559
body snatchers was published now what's

542
00:21:06,789 --> 00:21:04,159
interesting that's happened in the last

543
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:06,799
years as you know kevin randall came out

544
00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:08,720
with the book last year roswell in the

545
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:10,720
21st century

546
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:12,480
and the notable thing about it is

547
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:14,000
recanting

548
00:21:17,830 --> 00:21:15,520
some of the

549
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:17,840
beliefs about roswell he's no longer

550
00:21:21,430 --> 00:21:19,600
certain it was a spaceship

551
00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:21,440
and the reports

552
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:25,360
of alien bodies could not be verified

553
00:21:29,909 --> 00:21:28,159
there are two aspects of that book

554
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:29,919
yeah i mean i actually i really enjoyed

555
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:31,679
kevin's book and um and i'm not just

556
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:33,840
saying that i actually do think that of

557
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:36,240
all the people who are i know kevin

558
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:38,000
isn't completely pro

559
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:40,400
alien with the case anymore but he's you

560
00:21:45,430 --> 00:21:42,000
know i think he's still

561
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:45,440
extremely open to it of all the pro

562
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:47,520
roswell researchers i think kevin is the

563
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:49,120
most sort of rational

564
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:50,559
down to earth

565
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:53,280
an objective one of them in that in that

566
00:21:57,909 --> 00:21:54,960
side of you know the camp when it comes

567
00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:57,919
to roswell and i think you know when you

568
00:22:02,870 --> 00:21:59,760
when you read his book and you realize

569
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:02,880
that he has sort of dismissed or put to

570
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:04,240
one side

571
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:06,240
a lot of the body stories as it relates

572
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:09,520
to aliens you know that demonstrates an

573
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:12,880
important thing that's even within the

574
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:15,200
what used to be the very pro community

575
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:16,960
questions are now being asked as to

576
00:22:20,789 --> 00:22:18,240
whether or not

577
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:20,799
aliens really did crash at roswell even

578
00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:22,400
if they're not endorsing you know the

579
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:24,320
data that i've got they're still

580
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:25,440
questioning

581
00:22:29,110 --> 00:22:27,200
the scenario that's actually been in

582
00:22:30,549 --> 00:22:29,120
place for decades you know since the

583
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:30,559
late 70s

584
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:32,159
well the thing of course that always

585
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:34,080
bothered me about roswell is that the

586
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:36,000
first recollections of the case after

587
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:37,200
the initial

588
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:38,880
newspaper story

589
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:41,679
didn't occur until 30 years later and we

590
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:43,280
know how memories can change and maybe

591
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:45,440
they were naive about it then but we

592
00:22:49,669 --> 00:22:47,280
certainly know now how that works we

593
00:22:59,530 --> 00:22:49,679
have nick redfern with jean and chris

594
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:00,630
[Applause]

595
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:04,159
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667
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669
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670
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691
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[Music]

692
00:27:20,310 --> 00:27:18,230
hi this is bryce abel i'm the producer

693
00:27:22,149 --> 00:27:20,320
of dark skies the co-author of ad after

694
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:22,159
disclosure and you are listening to the

695
00:27:26,790 --> 00:27:25,440
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

696
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:26,800
radio

697
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:34,080
[Music]

698
00:27:38,149 --> 00:27:36,159
nick is in rare form nick redfearn

699
00:27:42,149 --> 00:27:38,159
author of the roswell ufo conspiracy

700
00:27:45,029 --> 00:27:42,159
exposing a shocking and sinister secret

701
00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:45,039
i remember years ago i was publishing my

702
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:47,520
magazine caveat mtor and i had letter

703
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:48,960
from john keel

704
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:50,880
and he suggested that roswell was a

705
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:52,880
japanese fugo balloon

706
00:27:57,029 --> 00:27:55,440
that's those are the explosive balloons

707
00:27:59,430 --> 00:27:57,039
that you were mentioning

708
00:28:01,269 --> 00:27:59,440
well no what happened was in this but

709
00:28:03,029 --> 00:28:01,279
you write what kale said there's a

710
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:03,039
chapter in the book all about keele's

711
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:05,120
theories what happened was in in the

712
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:07,760
latter stages of the second world war

713
00:28:13,110 --> 00:28:10,559
the japanese sent these balloons called

714
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:13,120
fugo balloons across the pacific to the

715
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:14,399
united states and they were sort of

716
00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:16,480
calibrated where they would get lower

717
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:17,600
and lower

718
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:20,000
and the bombs would explode and you know

719
00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:22,720
the japanese hoped that people would be

720
00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:24,960
killed or major forest fires would be

721
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:27,279
started but fortunately didn't actually

722
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:29,440
do much too much damage and it was more

723
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:31,760
like a psychological weapon you know

724
00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:34,320
people feared these balloons being sent

725
00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:36,799
over now what we know for sure is that

726
00:28:41,510 --> 00:28:38,880
in these final stages of the second

727
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:41,520
world war before the atomic bombs were

728
00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:44,480
dropped on nagasaki and hiroshima the

729
00:28:48,389 --> 00:28:46,640
japanese were boasting that they were

730
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:48,399
going to build these much bigger

731
00:28:52,230 --> 00:28:50,640
balloons which would have gondolas

732
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:52,240
attached to them which could rise up to

733
00:28:56,549 --> 00:28:54,880
like 30 000 feet be pressurized and that

734
00:28:59,269 --> 00:28:56,559
would be sort of like kamikaze missions

735
00:29:01,830 --> 00:28:59,279
with bombs attached or detachable

736
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:01,840
gliders which could sort of be released

737
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:03,520
and then just hurtle straight into a

738
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,960
city it kind of almost eerily parallels

739
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:08,320
you know what we're hearing with north

740
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:10,480
korea that we you know they can reach

741
00:29:14,789 --> 00:29:12,720
seattle it was kind of a similar thing

742
00:29:16,870 --> 00:29:14,799
where you're talking about you know the

743
00:29:19,510 --> 00:29:16,880
japanese claiming they could reach the

744
00:29:22,149 --> 00:29:19,520
united states and you know destroy its

745
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:22,159
vulnerability or invo vulnerability i

746
00:29:26,789 --> 00:29:25,440
should say so we had the this program

747
00:29:29,269 --> 00:29:26,799
which was going to build these massive

748
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:29,279
balloon arrays for for japanese

749
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:31,840
personnel to go across the united states

750
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:33,840
now when the war ended

751
00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:36,640
a lot of the blueprints for these really

752
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:39,440
kind of really advanced balloons were

753
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:40,960
brought over to the united states as i

754
00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:43,520
said in a similar situation to paperclip

755
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:45,600
the japanese team that was brought over

756
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:48,240
reportedly worked to build these huge

757
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:50,799
balloon arrays and these detachable sort

758
00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:53,039
of lifting bodies they worked on both of

759
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:54,559
these programs because that's what they

760
00:30:00,630 --> 00:29:57,600
were working on in japan in other words

761
00:30:03,269 --> 00:30:00,640
you have this situation where keel

762
00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:03,279
took the view that what came down with

763
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:06,080
the original fugo balloons as i point

764
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:07,600
out in the book the far more likely

765
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:09,440
scenario is that yes there's a japanese

766
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:12,320
angle but what was being tested were not

767
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:15,120
captured fugo balloons but work done on

768
00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:17,760
these next generation massive balloon

769
00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:19,840
arrays that the japanese are working on

770
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:21,760
so as i point out in the book

771
00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:24,320
kale got the right country but he got

772
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:26,640
the wrong balloons but considering when

773
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:29,200
he did this this was the 1980s when he

774
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:31,200
was making the statement so that was

775
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:32,640
pretty radical

776
00:30:35,909 --> 00:30:33,600
yeah i mean this is one of the

777
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:35,919
interesting things about kale in general

778
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:38,960
his views on ufology and how he

779
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:40,799
recognized the links between sort of the

780
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:42,640
paranormal and the occults and

781
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:44,080
crossovers

782
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:45,840
he was talking about that in the 60s and

783
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:48,240
people just ignoring him you know he did

784
00:30:53,909 --> 00:30:50,799
come up with the the japanese angle in

785
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:53,919
the late 80s and expanded on it in a

786
00:30:59,190 --> 00:30:56,640
couple of articles in fate magazine

787
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:59,200
in the early 1990s and that's what

788
00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:00,960
really kind of

789
00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:03,919
started this issue of you know or maybe

790
00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:06,399
it was actually a huge balloon after all

791
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:07,760
which actually the wreckage you know

792
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:09,600
when you look superficially does sound

793
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:13,039
like a huge amount of you exploded

794
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:15,679
balloon debris all across the ranch

795
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:18,000
again you know i think this is why it

796
00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:19,600
comes back to was it a military

797
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:21,760
experiment in the military you know for

798
00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:23,840
their there's the air force

799
00:31:27,909 --> 00:31:25,840
although they didn't endorse the weather

800
00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:27,919
balloon theory in 94

801
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:29,360
they came up with the mogul balloon

802
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:31,760
scenario you know they did say well we

803
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:33,840
think it was a large balloon now what's

804
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:35,440
interesting is that one of the guys i

805
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:37,200
interviewed interview for body snatchers

806
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:38,640
so we're talking about interviews done

807
00:31:44,789 --> 00:31:41,360
about 16 years ago one of them said to

808
00:31:47,909 --> 00:31:44,799
me the best way to hide a classified

809
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:47,919
balloon program is to hide it behind

810
00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:50,080
another highly classified balloon

811
00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:51,279
program

812
00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:54,080
so in other words if it was some sort of

813
00:31:58,710 --> 00:31:56,320
huge balloon array with a detachable

814
00:32:01,669 --> 00:31:58,720
lifting body that came down on the ranch

815
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:01,679
well the best way to hide that is to

816
00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:04,960
bring into the fold another classified

817
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:06,880
balloon program that actually operated

818
00:32:11,269 --> 00:32:09,760
out of new mexico as well namely project

819
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:11,279
mogul which is the one the air force

820
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:12,399
stands by

821
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:14,640
right now and what a lot of people don't

822
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,440
know

823
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:18,000
a lot of people in the roswell community

824
00:32:22,389 --> 00:32:20,159
actually don't like talking about

825
00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:22,399
is that matt brazil the rancher who

826
00:32:27,509 --> 00:32:24,559
found the wreckage or the debris have

827
00:32:29,029 --> 00:32:27,519
you on a tournament actually said during

828
00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:29,039
the course of the time that he worked

829
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:32,080
there on two previous occasions military

830
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:34,559
balloons had come down on the ranch

831
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:36,880
for them to be two previous ones and

832
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:40,320
then a third event occurs where somewhat

833
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:42,799
balloon-like material is found you know

834
00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:45,360
you have to really wonder you know what

835
00:32:49,350 --> 00:32:47,279
are the chances of a ufo coming down and

836
00:32:51,909 --> 00:32:49,360
crashing and the wreckage

837
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:51,919
actually is balloon-like you know

838
00:32:55,029 --> 00:32:53,840
well also you think at the convenience

839
00:32:57,190 --> 00:32:55,039
of this too

840
00:32:58,950 --> 00:32:57,200
as you say using one balloon case to

841
00:33:00,149 --> 00:32:58,960
cover another balloon

842
00:33:02,870 --> 00:33:00,159
and now

843
00:33:05,269 --> 00:33:02,880
all the stories about a flying saucer

844
00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:05,279
doesn't that also help preserve the

845
00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:07,440
cover-up well it does i mean what it

846
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:10,399
does whatever the answer is right now we

847
00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:12,720
cannot prove any of the theories i i

848
00:33:16,710 --> 00:33:14,960
think it's the right answer but i'll be

849
00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:16,720
honest enough to admit i can't prove

850
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:18,880
it's the right answer but

851
00:33:24,750 --> 00:33:21,440
what i think has happened is that if it

852
00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:24,760
was a dark and disturbing sort of human

853
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:27,200
experimentation kind of events

854
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:28,399
what i think

855
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:29,600
is that

856
00:33:34,149 --> 00:33:32,240
if you can hide part of the story behind

857
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:34,159
like a mogul balloon or a weather

858
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:35,120
balloon

859
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:37,840
then that's going to keep the regular

860
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:40,480
media away because you know they'll

861
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:42,399
cover it which they did but it's not a

862
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:44,799
major story it's just about how ufology

863
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:47,840
got it wrong for the ufo community it

864
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:49,840
makes a great deal of sense to actually

865
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:52,960
promote the ufo angle on one hand subtly

866
00:33:58,149 --> 00:33:55,919
because that would keep ufology away

867
00:34:00,549 --> 00:33:58,159
from looking from any answer apart from

868
00:34:02,549 --> 00:34:00,559
the extraterrestrial one in other words

869
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:02,559
the media is kept away from it with a

870
00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:04,240
down-to-earth explanation of a moga

871
00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:06,720
balloon the ufo community has kept away

872
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:09,919
from it by spreading ufo stories so they

873
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:10,720
then

874
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:12,960
won't go after any other angle and so in

875
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:15,040
other words the human experimentation

876
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:17,440
angle is hidden from everybody and i

877
00:34:20,790 --> 00:34:19,679
think perhaps the military's biggest

878
00:34:24,470 --> 00:34:20,800
concern

879
00:34:25,750 --> 00:34:24,480
is that a major media outlet would pick

880
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:25,760
up on that

881
00:34:30,069 --> 00:34:27,919
angle of sort of dark and disturbing

882
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,079
human experiments and would legitimately

883
00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:31,919
think well you know we could write about

884
00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:33,040
that because we're not going to look

885
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:35,280
stupid because we're not a newspaper

886
00:34:37,589 --> 00:34:36,480
that's going to

887
00:34:40,149 --> 00:34:37,599
support

888
00:34:43,109 --> 00:34:40,159
the ufo angle we're looking into

889
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:43,119
something even more disturbing so i

890
00:34:49,109 --> 00:34:46,560
think it at all costs and it in all

891
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:49,119
approaches and directions there's been

892
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:50,720
an attempt to

893
00:34:56,950 --> 00:34:54,240
stifle the truth with multiple scenarios

894
00:34:59,190 --> 00:34:56,960
of a far less inflammatory nature than

895
00:35:01,510 --> 00:34:59,200
than the real ones well how do we

896
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:01,520
resolve the missing

897
00:35:05,349 --> 00:35:04,000
the 22 months that it must have taken

898
00:35:07,589 --> 00:35:05,359
the balloon

899
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:07,599
to get across the pacific because it did

900
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:09,920
you know we're talking about july 47 and

901
00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:11,520
we're we're talking about you know the

902
00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:13,119
war ending august

903
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:16,640
45. well yeah that's why kael's scenario

904
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:18,400
didn't work because he said it was one

905
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:20,640
of the fugo balloons which were launched

906
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:23,359
in like july and june of 45 and there's

907
00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:25,920
no way that would have remained not

908
00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:28,640
found on the ranch for two years but the

909
00:35:32,069 --> 00:35:30,800
japanese scenario is that the

910
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:32,079
in the same way that the german

911
00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:33,680
paperclip scientists were brought over

912
00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:36,320
in 45 the japanese ones were so in other

913
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:39,040
words this massive japanese balloon ray

914
00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:41,359
wasn't flown until 47. do you see what i

915
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:43,520
mean it wasn't like it was flown from

916
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:46,320
japan in 45. well so okay

917
00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:48,560
so the us the us actually fluid is what

918
00:35:52,390 --> 00:35:51,040
you're what you're surmising yes yes in

919
00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:52,400
the same way that the paperclip

920
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:54,640
scientists and the german v2 rockets are

921
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:56,640
brought over right the japanese

922
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:58,640
scientists and their

923
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:00,880
blueprints for these massive balloon

924
00:36:05,109 --> 00:36:02,640
arrays are brought over and they worked

925
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:05,119
on the programs in new mexico in the

926
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:06,240
same way

927
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:07,760
that the german

928
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:10,160
scientists worked on the v2 rocket so in

929
00:36:14,470 --> 00:36:12,000
other words it wasn't actually flown

930
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:14,480
until the night before it crashed down

931
00:36:16,550 --> 00:36:15,760
on the ranch

932
00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:16,560
now

933
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:19,200
one of the important things to kind of

934
00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:21,680
note in all this is that the reason why

935
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:23,839
supposedly and this is a story that

936
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:25,920
unanimously nearly all the sources spoke

937
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:27,359
to said

938
00:36:32,230 --> 00:36:29,359
okay for now that's a pretty good

939
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:32,240
stopping point there's a lot more about

940
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:35,040
that particular situation for nick

941
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:37,359
redfearn to describe we've got nick

942
00:36:42,550 --> 00:36:39,599
redfern the book is the roswell ufo

943
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:42,560
conspiracy exposing a shocking

944
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:44,880
and sinister secret

945
00:36:51,650 --> 00:36:47,200
with gene and chris you're in the bare

946
00:36:51,660 --> 00:37:00,550
[Music]

947
00:37:05,310 --> 00:37:04,069
thank you for listening to gcn

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this is leslie kane and i'm with the

1051
00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:17,200
coalition for freedom of information and

1052
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:23,349
okay nick's in the midst of a long

1053
00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:25,920
answer a long response to chris's

1054
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:28,000
question about

1055
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:30,400
this roswell episode what really

1056
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:31,760
happened go ahead

1057
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:33,680
yeah the important thing to note is that

1058
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:36,000
you know when the german scientists came

1059
00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:36,880
over

1060
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:39,920
and with operation paperclip with the v2

1061
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:42,079
rockets and other technology aviation

1062
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:43,760
technology brought over

1063
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:45,359
although that was deeply buried and

1064
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:48,079
hidden it wasn't as deeply buried and

1065
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:49,920
hidden as the japanese program and the

1066
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:52,079
reason being that most of the german

1067
00:41:56,710 --> 00:41:54,240
scientists although some of them were

1068
00:41:59,030 --> 00:41:56,720
ardent nazis they were wanted because

1069
00:42:00,230 --> 00:41:59,040
they were experts in aviation and

1070
00:42:02,230 --> 00:42:00,240
rocketry

1071
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:02,240
now a lot of the japanese people who

1072
00:42:07,109 --> 00:42:04,079
have brought over were actually linked

1073
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:07,119
to the notorious unit 731

1074
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:08,960
which you know performed just you know

1075
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,240
terrible experiments on people and a lot

1076
00:42:18,069 --> 00:42:14,400
of their experiments were done to

1077
00:42:20,150 --> 00:42:18,079
understand how high altitude exposure

1078
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:20,160
and high pressures low pressures could

1079
00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:22,079
affect the human body

1080
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:25,119
and there was a big determination

1081
00:42:29,910 --> 00:42:26,880
at the end of the second world war to

1082
00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:29,920
grab the unit 731 files and even some of

1083
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:31,440
the people working on the programs and

1084
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:34,240
this was um overseen by a high-ranking

1085
00:42:37,990 --> 00:42:36,800
military officer charles willoughby

1086
00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:38,000
who

1087
00:42:43,190 --> 00:42:40,400
got the files over into the us and so

1088
00:42:45,349 --> 00:42:43,200
the japanese angle was hidden because a

1089
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:45,359
lot of the people on those programs were

1090
00:42:50,230 --> 00:42:47,440
or would have been you know nothing less

1091
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:50,240
than you know the worst kind of

1092
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:54,160
war criminals ever whereas not to um say

1093
00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:56,160
that the nazis weren't but a lot of

1094
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:58,720
those were just rocket engineers so the

1095
00:43:03,990 --> 00:43:00,640
japanese angle was buried even more

1096
00:43:06,630 --> 00:43:04,000
deeply and that may explain why we know

1097
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:06,640
today about the v2 rocket tests out of

1098
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:08,880
you know white sands but we don't know

1099
00:43:13,589 --> 00:43:10,720
much about the japanese angle not

1100
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:13,599
because of you know nobody was actually

1101
00:43:17,670 --> 00:43:15,359
overly concerned about hiding the

1102
00:43:20,390 --> 00:43:17,680
balloon angle it was the fact that it

1103
00:43:22,630 --> 00:43:20,400
would also lead back to unit 731 and

1104
00:43:25,430 --> 00:43:22,640
nobody wanted to be linked and that's an

1105
00:43:28,150 --> 00:43:25,440
interesting aside one of uh charles

1106
00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:28,160
willoughby's closest friends was philip

1107
00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:30,000
corso who wrote the book the day after

1108
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:31,760
roswell i mean they were friends for

1109
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:34,079
decades and worked together on

1110
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:36,160
classified programs and i speculate in

1111
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:38,240
the book that maybe

1112
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:40,720
corso actually knew the real story and

1113
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:43,520
was part of the a program again to sort

1114
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:46,000
of promote the ufo angle the fact that

1115
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:48,480
he was so deeply tied to willoughby who

1116
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:50,480
was actually willowby actually ran the

1117
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:53,280
program to get the unit 731 material

1118
00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:54,400
over

1119
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:55,839
you know i don't think that is a

1120
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:57,359
coincidence i think there's a bigger

1121
00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:59,359
story there still to be found

1122
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:01,440
so therefore in short

1123
00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:04,079
the book the day after roswell

1124
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:07,280
was really disinformation

1125
00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:09,040
yeah i think it was

1126
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:09,839
now

1127
00:44:14,230 --> 00:44:12,400
the the problem i have with that book

1128
00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:14,240
is not that you know somebody might know

1129
00:44:19,349 --> 00:44:16,720
the whole story and decide to tell it

1130
00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:19,359
it's just i find it extremely difficult

1131
00:44:24,069 --> 00:44:21,440
to believe that you know we recovered

1132
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:24,079
this material in 47 and within a few

1133
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:26,960
years we were sort of deciphering and

1134
00:44:32,950 --> 00:44:30,240
replicating alien technology and it was

1135
00:44:34,870 --> 00:44:32,960
giving kickstarts to computers

1136
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:34,880
fiber optics

1137
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:37,440
night vision computers all sorts of

1138
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:38,400
things

1139
00:44:44,069 --> 00:44:41,280
it just to me it just doesn't it just

1140
00:44:46,230 --> 00:44:44,079
doesn't hold water in case we forget by

1141
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:46,240
the way neighbors night vision goggles

1142
00:44:50,550 --> 00:44:47,839
were being used by the germans in the

1143
00:44:53,030 --> 00:44:50,560
1930s under development

1144
00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:53,040
yeah and i think you know from my

1145
00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:54,640
perspective

1146
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:56,800
talking to people who read the book um

1147
00:45:00,790 --> 00:44:58,400
the day after roswell and you know

1148
00:45:02,630 --> 00:45:00,800
commented on it it sort of polarizes

1149
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:02,640
people into just two camps it's either

1150
00:45:06,950 --> 00:45:05,280
literally true or it's literally false

1151
00:45:08,230 --> 00:45:06,960
you know there's there really is because

1152
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:08,240
it's such a

1153
00:45:44,230 --> 00:45:09,359
a

1154
00:45:47,829 --> 00:45:44,240
to

1155
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:47,839
time you had the air force coming out

1156
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:49,760
with the crash test dummy angle for the

1157
00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:50,880
bodies

1158
00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:54,160
and again it confuses things but it also

1159
00:45:57,510 --> 00:45:55,680
keeps things away from the human

1160
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:57,520
experiment you've got corso championing

1161
00:46:01,510 --> 00:45:59,760
the alien angle and the air force say oh

1162
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:01,520
it's right they were just crash test

1163
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:04,240
dummies but nobody's talking about

1164
00:46:09,109 --> 00:46:07,040
something darker and deeper you know

1165
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:09,119
well before we go on with other aspects

1166
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:10,720
of this

1167
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:13,200
have you thought just how many

1168
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:15,680
of these old-time ufo cases these

1169
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:19,440
classic ufo or possibly ufo cases

1170
00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:21,040
are also

1171
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:23,280
cover-ups for something that had nothing

1172
00:46:28,230 --> 00:46:26,079
to do with spaceships from elsewhere

1173
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:28,240
well yeah i mean a classic example is a

1174
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:30,480
lot of people think you know that the

1175
00:46:35,430 --> 00:46:33,440
whole captain uh thomas mantel case you

1176
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:35,440
know of 1948

1177
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:38,160
was a a classic tragedy where

1178
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:41,599
that mantel was possibly chasing a a

1179
00:46:46,309 --> 00:46:43,920
project skyhook balloon these gigantic

1180
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:46,319
balloons which was a classified program

1181
00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:47,520
at the time

1182
00:46:50,630 --> 00:46:48,880
and

1183
00:46:52,550 --> 00:46:50,640
we know that there was some awkwardness

1184
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:52,560
within the air force not wanting to

1185
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:54,480
admit you know they're in a quandary

1186
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:56,240
they didn't want to admit it was a ufo

1187
00:47:00,470 --> 00:46:58,240
and then sort of spread have story

1188
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:00,480
spread that the ufo shot mantel out the

1189
00:47:05,270 --> 00:47:03,200
sky or whatever but equally

1190
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:05,280
they weren't able to talk about the

1191
00:47:10,790 --> 00:47:08,000
project skyhook theory that they had or

1192
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:10,800
suspicions because skyhook was still a

1193
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:12,640
classified balloon program and to talk

1194
00:47:18,470 --> 00:47:15,680
about it would would blow the lid on the

1195
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:18,480
secrecy surrounding that balloon program

1196
00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:21,280
and so they came up with theories like

1197
00:47:25,349 --> 00:47:23,119
venus you know things like this which

1198
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:25,359
were highly unlikely and that wasn't

1199
00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:26,880
because they were sort of i don't think

1200
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:29,119
hiding the truth of a ufo event it was

1201
00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:31,520
because they were in an awkward quandary

1202
00:47:37,750 --> 00:47:34,079
where anything they said could

1203
00:47:40,069 --> 00:47:37,760
blow wide open as i said project skyhook

1204
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:40,079
um i wouldn't be surprised if some of

1205
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:41,680
the 50s

1206
00:47:46,630 --> 00:47:44,319
encounters were another from another

1207
00:47:49,430 --> 00:47:46,640
program called project moby dick which

1208
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:49,440
again flew massive highly reflective

1209
00:47:54,069 --> 00:47:52,160
balloons high into the atmosphere which

1210
00:47:55,910 --> 00:47:54,079
and that was a highly classified program

1211
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:55,920
so people not cleared

1212
00:47:59,589 --> 00:47:58,079
would would possibly think at a distance

1213
00:48:00,630 --> 00:47:59,599
they were seeing a flying saucer and

1214
00:48:01,829 --> 00:48:00,640
maybe

1215
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:01,839
um

1216
00:48:05,829 --> 00:48:03,200
you know the military would be very

1217
00:48:07,990 --> 00:48:05,839
happy for people to think they were ufos

1218
00:48:09,270 --> 00:48:08,000
because it would act as a good cover now

1219
00:48:10,630 --> 00:48:09,280
i wouldn't want people to think i've

1220
00:48:12,390 --> 00:48:10,640
sort of swung

1221
00:48:14,870 --> 00:48:12,400
totally to the

1222
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:14,880
um you know the debunking or skeptical

1223
00:48:18,550 --> 00:48:17,040
side i'm not there's no doubt in my mind

1224
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:18,560
and i point this out in the very

1225
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:20,480
immediate introduction of the book i'm

1226
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:23,520
absolutely convinced there is a genuine

1227
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:27,040
real ufo phenomenon but the more i've

1228
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:28,880
gone into the subject i'm more inclined

1229
00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:31,200
to think that the real phenomenon of

1230
00:48:36,390 --> 00:48:34,400
ufology is sort of the more supernatural

1231
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:36,400
kind of side of it that kale talked

1232
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:38,720
about and valley has talked about and i

1233
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:41,119
think the nuts and bolts angle

1234
00:48:45,589 --> 00:48:43,119
could actually have been sort of over

1235
00:48:48,630 --> 00:48:45,599
emphasized and um

1236
00:48:50,630 --> 00:48:48,640
encouraged to hide some of these

1237
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:50,640
classified military programs which were

1238
00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:54,160
nuts and bolts you know so uh i think

1239
00:48:57,670 --> 00:48:56,880
you know the more if roswell collapses i

1240
00:49:01,589 --> 00:48:57,680
think

1241
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:01,599
happen is that it would have a spiraling

1242
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:02,720
effect where people are going to say

1243
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:04,800
well does that mean there are no alien

1244
00:49:08,710 --> 00:49:06,720
bodies in cryogenic storage at wright

1245
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:08,720
patterson does it mean there's no

1246
00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:11,119
reverse engineering going on at area 51

1247
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:14,079
etc etc and so

1248
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:16,960
i think ufology if roswell does fall

1249
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:19,280
ufology will move away from the nuts and

1250
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:22,079
bolts take me to your leader aliens to

1251
00:49:30,950 --> 00:49:25,920
the more chilean angle of a paranormal

1252
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:33,750
what's that i said i'm all for that

1253
00:49:37,990 --> 00:49:35,760
oh good but there are people who will

1254
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:38,000
resist that particularly you know the

1255
00:49:42,549 --> 00:49:40,160
old timers who grew up with

1256
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:42,559
the books like by kehoe

1257
00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:45,839
and you know people like frank scully

1258
00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:48,319
and um you know a lot of the early 50s

1259
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:50,800
writers and mid you know early 60s

1260
00:49:56,150 --> 00:49:53,680
writers who championed the idea that the

1261
00:49:58,710 --> 00:49:56,160
air force was hiding the truth of

1262
00:50:01,270 --> 00:49:58,720
invaders from mars or wherever you know

1263
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:01,280
that kind of scenario and that image

1264
00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:03,280
still sort of holds a great deal of sway

1265
00:50:07,510 --> 00:50:04,640
for a lot of the

1266
00:50:10,470 --> 00:50:07,520
elderly people in ufology and you know

1267
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:10,480
it's like anything people resist change

1268
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:12,240
when they get older they get frightened

1269
00:50:16,870 --> 00:50:15,440
or intimidated by technology

1270
00:50:18,790 --> 00:50:16,880
and i think they could get frightened

1271
00:50:21,190 --> 00:50:18,800
intimate and intimidated by the fact

1272
00:50:22,549 --> 00:50:21,200
that ufology isn't really what they

1273
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:22,559
think it is

1274
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:24,240
well you mentioned of course people like

1275
00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:26,720
major kehoe who influenced so many

1276
00:50:30,630 --> 00:50:28,400
people in the early years

1277
00:50:33,109 --> 00:50:30,640
he got a lot of his information about

1278
00:50:34,230 --> 00:50:33,119
cases from the government and he

1279
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:34,240
wrote

1280
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:36,480
his books in kind of like a detective

1281
00:50:41,349 --> 00:50:37,440
novel

1282
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:41,359
that through to his supposed factual

1283
00:50:44,309 --> 00:50:42,960
writing

1284
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:44,319
and he would tell

1285
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:46,240
all the steps he had to take to get

1286
00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:48,880
these secret cases

1287
00:50:53,670 --> 00:50:51,280
and we always wondered when kehoe got

1288
00:50:56,630 --> 00:50:53,680
involved with this organization nightcap

1289
00:50:58,309 --> 00:50:56,640
that he had so many military

1290
00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:58,319
officers including

1291
00:51:01,349 --> 00:51:00,480
former head of the cia

1292
00:51:04,630 --> 00:51:01,359
as

1293
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:04,640
board members these are people he knew

1294
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:06,160
and i'll bring this up and we'll talk

1295
00:51:08,790 --> 00:51:07,680
about in our next segment a little bit

1296
00:51:12,309 --> 00:51:08,800
if you like

1297
00:51:13,990 --> 00:51:12,319
whether major donald kehoe was a tool

1298
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:14,000
of the government

1299
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:16,079
to spread ufo

1300
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:18,800
flying saucer disinformation

1301
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:20,800
in order to

1302
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:22,400
keep people from looking into other

1303
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:23,920
things not that some of these cases

1304
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:25,280
weren't real

1305
00:51:28,069 --> 00:51:26,800
i mean there are a whole bunch of cases

1306
00:51:30,150 --> 00:51:28,079
that do appear

1307
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:30,160
to be of unknown

1308
00:51:32,790 --> 00:51:31,599
phenomena

1309
00:51:34,470 --> 00:51:32,800
but still

1310
00:51:36,630 --> 00:51:34,480
kehoe himself

1311
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:36,640
with all those military contacts you

1312
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:38,880
wonder we have nick redfearn with gene

1313
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:53,670
thank you for listening to gcn

1314
00:51:58,390 --> 00:51:54,589
visit

1315
00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:01,030
ray perkins a reclusive veteran burned

1316
00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:02,720
out from the gulf war

1317
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:05,200
lives tortured by relentless perplexing

1318
00:52:10,470 --> 00:52:06,480
nightmares

1319
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:10,480
space and of a mysterious woman

1320
00:52:13,430 --> 00:52:12,559
suffering in agony for her devastated

1321
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:13,440
world

1322
00:52:18,950 --> 00:52:16,079
a woman not yet born calling across

1323
00:52:19,829 --> 00:52:18,960
centuries to him

1324
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:19,839
then

1325
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:22,160
a coincidence leads him to his destiny

1326
00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:25,200
his chance to alter the universe attack

1327
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:27,280
attack of the rockaway the former

1328
00:52:31,829 --> 00:52:29,359
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1329
00:52:33,990 --> 00:52:31,839
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1330
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the novel attack of the rockoids lies in

1331
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1332
00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:37,680
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1333
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:40,400
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1334
00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:43,200
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1335
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1336
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1337
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1338
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1339
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1340
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1341
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1342
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1343
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1344
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1345
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1346
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1347
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1349
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1356
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1359
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1360
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1361
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1362
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1363
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1364
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1365
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1366
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1367
00:54:13,750 --> 00:54:10,150
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1368
00:54:15,030 --> 00:54:13,760
standard of paranormal radio

1369
00:54:18,380 --> 00:54:15,040
and now

1370
00:54:21,990 --> 00:54:18,390
here's gene steinberg

1371
00:54:28,870 --> 00:54:25,349
so i raised the framework major donald

1372
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:28,880
kehoe early ufo writer influencing so

1373
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:32,160
many people with the forerunner of the

1374
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:35,520
perceptions of ufos being spaceships the

1375
00:54:40,950 --> 00:54:38,720
silence group ufo secrecy

1376
00:54:43,109 --> 00:54:40,960
all the memes of traditional ufo

1377
00:54:44,790 --> 00:54:43,119
research carried in his books nick

1378
00:54:46,630 --> 00:54:44,800
redfearn do you think

1379
00:54:48,309 --> 00:54:46,640
he was a tool

1380
00:54:50,309 --> 00:54:48,319
well yeah i actually think that could

1381
00:54:52,549 --> 00:54:50,319
well be the case and i'll explain why if

1382
00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:52,559
you look at the time frame you know sort

1383
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:55,680
of early 50s when ko took off big time

1384
00:55:00,309 --> 00:54:58,480
in terms of ufos now if you go back to

1385
00:55:02,069 --> 00:55:00,319
august 1949

1386
00:55:04,710 --> 00:55:02,079
that's when the air force put out a

1387
00:55:07,829 --> 00:55:04,720
technical report under project grudge

1388
00:55:11,430 --> 00:55:07,839
which is one of the early ufo programs

1389
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:11,440
now this was a study of just under 230

1390
00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:14,400
alleged ufo incidents but the most

1391
00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:16,480
important part of this document is one

1392
00:55:22,230 --> 00:55:19,200
that so many people forget or ignore it

1393
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:22,240
says the recommendation was quote that

1394
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:24,480
the psychological warfare divisions and

1395
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:26,960
other government agencies interested in

1396
00:55:31,270 --> 00:55:28,880
psychological warfare

1397
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:31,280
be informed of the results of this study

1398
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:34,400
now psychological warfare is essentially

1399
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:37,440
manipulating the truth to hide something

1400
00:55:42,309 --> 00:55:40,000
else and to steer people away from

1401
00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:42,319
something else so in other words as far

1402
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:45,920
back as 49 we had the military

1403
00:55:50,710 --> 00:55:48,640
recognizing that okay there may well be

1404
00:55:53,030 --> 00:55:50,720
a real ufo phenomenon but we can

1405
00:55:54,630 --> 00:55:53,040
manipulate this phenomenon by

1406
00:55:56,870 --> 00:55:54,640
psychologically

1407
00:55:59,670 --> 00:55:56,880
priming certain people to believe

1408
00:56:02,390 --> 00:55:59,680
certain things kind of like saying a ufo

1409
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:02,400
crashed at roswell or at aztec so i

1410
00:56:07,270 --> 00:56:05,280
would not be surprised if people like

1411
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:07,280
kehoe when they were seen as being

1412
00:56:12,390 --> 00:56:09,839
somewhat problematic and maybe

1413
00:56:15,829 --> 00:56:12,400
unknowingly starting to uncover things

1414
00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:15,839
on classified balloon programs right but

1415
00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:17,920
that they are actually uncovering stuff

1416
00:56:23,349 --> 00:56:21,440
relative to ufos then they may have said

1417
00:56:25,670 --> 00:56:23,359
okay you know we need to give this guy

1418
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:25,680
what he wants and what he wants is ufos

1419
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:28,400
so you know let's do that that may be

1420
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:30,640
why it's not a coincidence that a lot of

1421
00:56:35,510 --> 00:56:33,359
his cases did come from the governments

1422
00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:35,520
if he was being pushed down that path i

1423
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:36,960
mean another thing i talk about in the

1424
00:56:41,349 --> 00:56:37,760
book

1425
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:41,359
is the aztec story silas newton we know

1426
00:56:46,630 --> 00:56:43,359
was one of the a very shady character

1427
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:46,640
who was involved in spreading this story

1428
00:56:53,030 --> 00:56:49,680
and may be involved in creating it this

1429
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:53,040
story of a crashed ufo in park canyon in

1430
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:56,240
aztec new mexico in march 1948. now

1431
00:57:01,109 --> 00:56:58,960
what's interesting is that according to

1432
00:57:03,670 --> 00:57:01,119
newton himself or to one of his old

1433
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:03,680
journals he said he was approached by

1434
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:05,599
two members of a clandestine military

1435
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:07,200
group or government group which he

1436
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:08,240
didn't name

1437
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:09,359
he thought he was going to get into

1438
00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:11,599
trouble but they actually said look we

1439
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:13,359
want you just to keep telling this story

1440
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:15,119
about the crashed ufo we're not here to

1441
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:17,040
threaten you or shut you up we want you

1442
00:57:21,510 --> 00:57:19,200
to actually keep talking about it

1443
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:21,520
and that kind of suggests you know

1444
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:22,880
again that there was somebody in the

1445
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:25,200
military or the intelligence community

1446
00:57:31,270 --> 00:57:28,160
that wanted these bogus crash ufo

1447
00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:31,280
stories to be believed and endorsed and

1448
00:57:36,230 --> 00:57:33,760
again my only conclusion could be well

1449
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:36,240
not only but i think the main conclusion

1450
00:57:40,789 --> 00:57:39,040
would be talk about crashed ufos when

1451
00:57:43,670 --> 00:57:40,799
you want to try and hide something else

1452
00:57:45,829 --> 00:57:43,680
that yes it crashed but it wasn't a ufo

1453
00:57:48,549 --> 00:57:45,839
maybe in some sense perhaps something

1454
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:48,559
did come down near aztec but it may not

1455
00:57:53,829 --> 00:57:51,200
have been a ufo and maybe silas newton

1456
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:53,839
was prompted to talk about the ufo angle

1457
00:57:57,990 --> 00:57:55,680
to hide the fact that something else

1458
00:58:01,349 --> 00:57:58,000
came down and i agree nick there's

1459
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:01,359
nowhere near enough attention and in

1460
00:58:07,910 --> 00:58:05,040
research has been enacted by researchers

1461
00:58:10,069 --> 00:58:07,920
looking at this angle of deliberate

1462
00:58:12,630 --> 00:58:10,079
disinformation and misinformation by the

1463
00:58:15,030 --> 00:58:12,640
government using the ufo subject as a

1464
00:58:17,430 --> 00:58:15,040
convenient smoke screen to hide

1465
00:58:19,510 --> 00:58:17,440
classified projects i i think it makes

1466
00:58:21,030 --> 00:58:19,520
so much sense and you point out and i

1467
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:21,040
think rightfully so that all the way

1468
00:58:25,670 --> 00:58:23,760
back in the 40s with project grudge they

1469
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:25,680
were still a little bit confused about

1470
00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:27,200
the subject but but you could tell they

1471
00:58:32,069 --> 00:58:29,119
could they could

1472
00:58:36,309 --> 00:58:32,079
they were already seeing the advantages

1473
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:36,319
of the subject as a way to obstruct

1474
00:58:41,589 --> 00:58:38,559
their own programs that were highly

1475
00:58:43,589 --> 00:58:41,599
classified and obviously need to know so

1476
00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:43,599
i think that this is an area that more

1477
00:58:46,950 --> 00:58:44,480
people

1478
00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:46,960
need to become involved and start doing

1479
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:48,960
the quality of digging that you do in

1480
00:58:53,829 --> 00:58:51,520
another example would be uh which i i

1481
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:53,839
think not enough uh kudos and credit was

1482
00:58:57,430 --> 00:58:55,040
given um

1483
00:58:59,510 --> 00:58:57,440
uh james uh carry on with his ghost

1484
00:59:02,549 --> 00:58:59,520
rockets research he came up with some

1485
00:59:04,870 --> 00:59:02,559
very very intriguing uh documentation

1486
00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:04,880
and research that that shows that the

1487
00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:06,640
the government even at the end of world

1488
00:59:13,030 --> 00:59:09,359
war ii was was already possibly involved

1489
00:59:16,069 --> 00:59:13,040
in covering up events uh with using uh

1490
00:59:18,789 --> 00:59:16,079
undefined uh aerial objects as a as a

1491
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:18,799
way to hide other projects so i think

1492
00:59:21,829 --> 00:59:20,319
this is something for for some of our

1493
00:59:23,430 --> 00:59:21,839
younger listeners out there if you

1494
00:59:25,510 --> 00:59:23,440
really want to be part of the solution

1495
00:59:27,589 --> 00:59:25,520
and not just a true believer part of the

1496
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:27,599
uh the rank and file this would be a

1497
00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:29,200
good area to really get involved with

1498
00:59:33,990 --> 00:59:31,440
and do some digging like nick is doing

1499
00:59:36,549 --> 00:59:34,000
and like others are slowly doing i think

1500
00:59:39,589 --> 00:59:36,559
the norad event that occurred in um in

1501
00:59:40,870 --> 00:59:39,599
19 early 94 in january of 94 which

1502
00:59:43,270 --> 00:59:40,880
occurred in the san luis valley which i

1503
00:59:46,150 --> 00:59:43,280
have an extensive article on my website

1504
00:59:48,309 --> 00:59:46,160
this could also be some sort of cover-up

1505
00:59:50,630 --> 00:59:48,319
for well missile launches from white

1506
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:50,640
sands to a landing range that's just

1507
00:59:55,510 --> 00:59:52,960
south of green river utah and possibly

1508
00:59:58,150 --> 00:59:55,520
this could have been an errant rocket

1509
01:00:00,470 --> 00:59:58,160
that may have come down in in pieces

1510
01:00:02,710 --> 01:00:00,480
into the san luis valley and people at

1511
01:00:04,870 --> 01:00:02,720
norad were unaware that that launch was

1512
01:00:07,109 --> 01:00:04,880
taking place or inadvertently some of

1513
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:07,119
the personnel may have reported it

1514
01:00:11,510 --> 01:00:09,599
as a few acre-sized heat bloom and told

1515
01:00:13,030 --> 01:00:11,520
the rio grande county sheriff and search

1516
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:13,040
and rescue to exhaust all efforts to

1517
01:00:18,789 --> 01:00:16,640
find the source of it so even today uh

1518
01:00:21,109 --> 01:00:18,799
in the modern era we might be seeing

1519
01:00:23,270 --> 01:00:21,119
this same sort of bait and switch type

1520
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:23,280
thing with subjects like dolce for

1521
01:00:28,950 --> 01:00:26,000
instance i think is a classic example of

1522
01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:28,960
of using a story originally

1523
01:00:33,349 --> 01:00:31,680
prompted by uh air force intelligence

1524
01:00:36,309 --> 01:00:33,359
and then now it's blown into this huge

1525
01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:36,319
myth of an alien underground base and so

1526
01:00:41,190 --> 01:00:38,640
and i really applaud you nick uh for you

1527
01:00:43,030 --> 01:00:41,200
know really having the courage to fly in

1528
01:00:43,910 --> 01:00:43,040
the face of

1529
01:00:51,270 --> 01:00:43,920
you

1530
01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:51,280
with ufology is that if so an insider or

1531
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:53,440
an alleged insider tells a really

1532
01:00:57,910 --> 01:00:56,400
exciting story does this almost like an

1533
01:01:00,390 --> 01:00:57,920
overwhelming

1534
01:01:02,549 --> 01:01:00,400
wish to believe it's because why because

1535
01:01:04,309 --> 01:01:02,559
it's exciting and it's conspiratorial

1536
01:01:05,349 --> 01:01:04,319
and it's what we want to hear

1537
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:05,359
and

1538
01:01:11,670 --> 01:01:08,880
sometimes that yearning for that angle

1539
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:11,680
is overwhelms what should be an

1540
01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:14,319
impartial study of the story i mean i

1541
01:01:16,630 --> 01:01:15,599
always say to people you know if you're

1542
01:01:19,430 --> 01:01:16,640
given a

1543
01:01:21,670 --> 01:01:19,440
a controversial story by an elderly

1544
01:01:25,109 --> 01:01:21,680
whistleblower don't just focus on the

1545
01:01:26,470 --> 01:01:25,119
story ask the question why me why have i

1546
01:01:28,630 --> 01:01:26,480
been approached and why am i being

1547
01:01:29,910 --> 01:01:28,640
approached now are you working on

1548
01:01:32,470 --> 01:01:29,920
something else

1549
01:01:34,069 --> 01:01:32,480
uh another program or another project

1550
01:01:35,750 --> 01:01:34,079
which somebody might want to steer you

1551
01:01:38,630 --> 01:01:35,760
away from and then suddenly they say

1552
01:01:40,870 --> 01:01:38,640
holy guy he turns up and

1553
01:01:43,190 --> 01:01:40,880
his story's so powerful that you go

1554
01:01:45,990 --> 01:01:43,200
chase enough after that and that one of

1555
01:01:47,829 --> 01:01:46,000
the problems ufology has i mean i think

1556
01:01:49,670 --> 01:01:47,839
that happened a great deal with the mj

1557
01:01:51,430 --> 01:01:49,680
12 documents that

1558
01:01:52,470 --> 01:01:51,440
a lot of researchers were looking into

1559
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:52,480
roswell

1560
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:54,960
in the early 80s late 70s early 80s stan

1561
01:01:59,510 --> 01:01:57,680
friedman bill moore and suddenly the mj

1562
01:02:02,069 --> 01:01:59,520
12 documents come out

1563
01:02:04,549 --> 01:02:02,079
and there's no doubt that a lot of the

1564
01:02:07,030 --> 01:02:04,559
thrust went away from investigating

1565
01:02:09,510 --> 01:02:07,040
roswell the events and everybody in his

1566
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:09,520
brother was focusing on these documents

1567
01:02:12,710 --> 01:02:11,200
you know i won't say the investigation

1568
01:02:15,990 --> 01:02:12,720
of roswell was derailed because it

1569
01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:16,000
wasn't but the the emphasis this massive

1570
01:02:21,190 --> 01:02:19,200
emphasis that was on the case was

1571
01:02:23,910 --> 01:02:21,200
suddenly channeled over to these

1572
01:02:25,510 --> 01:02:23,920
questionable controversial documents and

1573
01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:25,520
i don't think that was coincidence kind

1574
01:02:30,390 --> 01:02:27,839
of same you know you talked about dulce

1575
01:02:32,710 --> 01:02:30,400
i mean like greg bishop's project beta

1576
01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:32,720
book all about paul benowitz you know

1577
01:02:37,589 --> 01:02:35,920
that's kind of a a classic example

1578
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:37,599
as well and i think

1579
01:02:42,870 --> 01:02:40,319
you know ufology needs to sort of when

1580
01:02:45,430 --> 01:02:42,880
we get these whistleblower stories about

1581
01:02:47,030 --> 01:02:45,440
crash ufos and dead aliens we need to

1582
01:02:49,829 --> 01:02:47,040
sort of take a breath

1583
01:02:51,109 --> 01:02:49,839
and stop and think like i said why me

1584
01:02:53,430 --> 01:02:51,119
why now

1585
01:02:55,030 --> 01:02:53,440
what's the motivation and insider giving

1586
01:02:57,190 --> 01:02:55,040
me this information

1587
01:02:58,789 --> 01:02:57,200
that may make people think then well

1588
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:58,799
hang on a minute this is just too good

1589
01:03:03,190 --> 01:03:01,280
to be true and sometimes it seems to be

1590
01:03:05,589 --> 01:03:03,200
too good to be true because it actually

1591
01:03:07,190 --> 01:03:05,599
is you know and then

1592
01:03:08,470 --> 01:03:07,200
it's it's up to us then to try and

1593
01:03:10,069 --> 01:03:08,480
figure out

1594
01:03:13,190 --> 01:03:10,079
why we're approached and what is it

1595
01:03:16,230 --> 01:03:13,200
that's really being hidden so

1596
01:03:17,430 --> 01:03:16,240
i'm being approached right now by uh

1597
01:03:19,349 --> 01:03:17,440
this

1598
01:03:20,870 --> 01:03:19,359
out of the woodwork uh sort of out of

1599
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:20,880
out of the blue

1600
01:03:23,589 --> 01:03:22,000
source

1601
01:03:25,670 --> 01:03:23,599
that um i don't know how they got my

1602
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:25,680
name i don't know how they they uh knew

1603
01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:28,000
i was interested in the story but in a

1604
01:03:32,150 --> 01:03:30,720
recent data dump that john greenwald had

1605
01:03:34,630 --> 01:03:32,160
about two or three months ago there was

1606
01:03:36,789 --> 01:03:34,640
an interesting letter uh to the net and

1607
01:03:39,910 --> 01:03:36,799
on you know to the forest service from a

1608
01:03:41,829 --> 01:03:39,920
guy that claimed that he stumbled on the

1609
01:03:44,069 --> 01:03:41,839
entrance up in a cliff face here in

1610
01:03:46,630 --> 01:03:44,079
central arizona of some sort of

1611
01:03:48,549 --> 01:03:46,640
underground alien facility okay the

1612
01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:48,559
cliffhanger folks with gene and chris

1613
01:03:57,829 --> 01:03:50,400
and nick redfearn you're in the

1614
01:04:02,230 --> 01:03:59,829
attack of the rockoids has been well

1615
01:04:03,750 --> 01:04:02,240
received by critics and readers alike

1616
01:04:05,190 --> 01:04:03,760
it's a thrill-a-minute story you'll

1617
01:04:07,109 --> 01:04:05,200
never forget

1618
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,119
a former u.s military intelligence

1619
01:04:12,150 --> 01:04:09,599
officer is haunted by intense dreams

1620
01:04:14,470 --> 01:04:12,160
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1621
01:04:15,589 --> 01:04:14,480
help after a terrible battle in outer

1622
01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:15,599
space

1623
01:04:19,670 --> 01:04:17,760
but the dreams turn out to be true and

1624
01:04:22,390 --> 01:04:19,680
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

1625
01:04:24,870 --> 01:04:22,400
with a woman whose far away planet is

1626
01:04:27,349 --> 01:04:24,880
intent on destroying the earth

1627
01:04:29,829 --> 01:04:27,359
and now the gripping tale continues in

1628
01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:29,839
the coming of the protectors it's the

1629
01:04:34,549 --> 01:04:32,400
second book of the rockoids trilogy a

1630
01:04:36,870 --> 01:04:34,559
galaxy spanning adventure that pits our

1631
01:04:39,109 --> 01:04:36,880
hapless heroes against powerful

1632
01:04:41,029 --> 01:04:39,119
fanatical enemies that threaten the

1633
01:04:42,150 --> 01:04:41,039
lives of freedom-loving beings

1634
01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:42,160
everywhere

1635
01:04:47,829 --> 01:04:44,880
attack of the rockoids and the coming of

1636
01:04:50,309 --> 01:04:47,839
the protectors classic science fiction

1637
01:04:53,510 --> 01:04:50,319
at its best available now

1638
01:04:57,829 --> 01:04:53,520
for more details visit rockoids.com

1639
01:05:00,150 --> 01:04:57,839
that's r o c k o i d s dot com

1640
01:05:01,910 --> 01:05:00,160
hi john here again after another month

1641
01:05:04,150 --> 01:05:01,920
of being on several supplements from

1642
01:05:06,950 --> 01:05:04,160
synergistic nutrition including synergy

1643
01:05:09,589 --> 01:05:06,960
one the andreas black cumin seed oil and

1644
01:05:11,910 --> 01:05:09,599
other supplements i've lost another 10

1645
01:05:13,750 --> 01:05:11,920
pounds for a total 20 pounds my belt

1646
01:05:15,990 --> 01:05:13,760
size has been reduced by one and three

1647
01:05:18,069 --> 01:05:16,000
quarter inches my knees don't ache as

1648
01:05:20,069 --> 01:05:18,079
much anymore and i'm walking my dogs

1649
01:05:22,630 --> 01:05:20,079
twice as long as i did a month ago i

1650
01:05:24,789 --> 01:05:22,640
sleep very well and have a lot more

1651
01:05:26,950 --> 01:05:24,799
energy i noticed that when i cut myself

1652
01:05:29,029 --> 01:05:26,960
accidentally that i was bleeding much

1653
01:05:31,510 --> 01:05:29,039
more profusely and that the blood was

1654
01:05:34,069 --> 01:05:31,520
bright red previously i didn't believe

1655
01:05:36,150 --> 01:05:34,079
much of all it was dark red in color so

1656
01:05:38,230 --> 01:05:36,160
i know this protocol is working to keep

1657
01:05:40,150 --> 01:05:38,240
my blood healthy additionally i now have

1658
01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:40,160
the energy to do calisthenics several

1659
01:05:44,470 --> 01:05:42,240
times a week in addition to the extra

1660
01:05:46,710 --> 01:05:44,480
walking my hunger has been reduced a lot

1661
01:06:03,190 --> 01:05:46,720
i take two shakes a day one with each

1662
01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:05,430
the shelter pod is a large all season

1663
01:06:09,589 --> 01:06:07,440
heavy duty quick deploy shelter the

1664
01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:09,599
shelter pod system can be set up in 30

1665
01:06:14,069 --> 01:06:11,520
seconds and includes an emergency

1666
01:06:16,150 --> 01:06:14,079
medical kit water filter survival tools

1667
01:06:17,990 --> 01:06:16,160
and more are you prepared to take care

1668
01:06:20,470 --> 01:06:18,000
of your family do you have everything in

1669
01:06:21,990 --> 01:06:20,480
one place ready to go get it now or

1670
01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:22,000
enter to win a complete shelter pod

1671
01:06:27,589 --> 01:06:24,799
system at shelterpod.com the shelter pod

1672
01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:27,599
at shelterpod.com shelter when you need

1673
01:06:30,870 --> 01:06:29,039
it most

1674
01:06:32,549 --> 01:06:30,880
hi there i'm bob eubanks you know as

1675
01:06:34,470 --> 01:06:32,559
part of hollywood for a long time i've

1676
01:06:36,549 --> 01:06:34,480
seen my fair share of celebrities get in

1677
01:06:39,589 --> 01:06:36,559
trouble with the irs well there's one

1678
01:06:42,309 --> 01:06:39,599
name i trust the tax defense group

1679
01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:42,319
they're the most trusted name in tax so

1680
01:06:46,150 --> 01:06:43,920
if you owe more than ten thousand

1681
01:06:48,870 --> 01:06:46,160
dollars to the irs you really need to

1682
01:06:51,589 --> 01:06:48,880
call my friends at the tax defense group

1683
01:06:53,510 --> 01:06:51,599
ignoring the irs is not the solution

1684
01:06:55,349 --> 01:06:53,520
they can garnish your paycheck levy your

1685
01:06:57,670 --> 01:06:55,359
bank accounts seize your home or

1686
01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:57,680
business but the tax defense group could

1687
01:07:02,470 --> 01:07:00,079
put a stop to all of that and tailor a

1688
01:07:05,190 --> 01:07:02,480
program that would reduce your tax debt

1689
01:07:07,510 --> 01:07:05,200
to pennies on the dollar you gotta love

1690
01:07:09,510 --> 01:07:07,520
that so don't just take my word for it

1691
01:07:12,870 --> 01:07:09,520
call them find out for yourself they

1692
01:07:15,430 --> 01:07:12,880
offer a 100 satisfaction guarantee and

1693
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:15,440
they're open 24 hours a day because they

1694
01:07:19,829 --> 01:07:18,000
know that tax debt doesn't sleep either

1695
01:07:21,829 --> 01:07:19,839
call now for your free and confidential

1696
01:07:24,270 --> 01:07:21,839
tax analysis from the most trusted name

1697
01:07:29,029 --> 01:07:24,280
and tax call

1698
01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:30,630
this is dan piller do you have the irs

1699
01:07:34,309 --> 01:07:32,480
money you can't pay are tax debts

1700
01:07:36,630 --> 01:07:34,319
crippling you i've defended people from

1701
01:07:38,710 --> 01:07:36,640
the irs for over 30 years i've helped

1702
01:07:40,150 --> 01:07:38,720
thousands and i can help you too i wrote

1703
01:07:41,829 --> 01:07:40,160
the book on irs settlement and i'm

1704
01:07:45,510 --> 01:07:41,839
telling you there's no such thing as a

1705
01:07:47,750 --> 01:07:45,520
hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

1706
01:07:49,270 --> 01:07:47,760
get free of irs debt with the irs's new

1707
01:07:52,150 --> 01:07:49,280
programs there's never been a better

1708
01:07:55,990 --> 01:07:52,160
time to solve your problem call 834 no

1709
01:08:01,109 --> 01:07:56,000
tax that's 800 34 no tax or my website

1710
01:08:05,829 --> 01:08:03,349
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1711
01:08:09,349 --> 01:08:05,839
comment or question about the paracast

1712
01:08:12,630 --> 01:08:09,359
send it to news at theparacast.com

1713
01:08:14,470 --> 01:08:12,640
that's news at theparacast.com

1714
01:08:16,950 --> 01:08:14,480
and don't forget to visit our famous

1715
01:08:21,590 --> 01:08:16,960
paracast community forums at

1716
01:08:27,910 --> 01:08:24,950
okay chris you opened the door there

1717
01:08:29,910 --> 01:08:27,920
oh please tell us more as with a lot of

1718
01:08:32,070 --> 01:08:29,920
these stories i've i've i've been very

1719
01:08:34,709 --> 01:08:32,080
lucky i think over the last 25 years

1720
01:08:36,630 --> 01:08:34,719
i've only been punked once i'm not the

1721
01:08:38,309 --> 01:08:36,640
kind of person that i guess attracts

1722
01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:38,319
these whistleblower sources that come

1723
01:08:42,309 --> 01:08:40,480
forward and try to pull fast ones on you

1724
01:08:43,910 --> 01:08:42,319
i've been expecting one for a while and

1725
01:08:46,309 --> 01:08:43,920
this may be the one

1726
01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:46,319
this guy claims he can take me right to

1727
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:48,159
a spot in a canyon

1728
01:08:52,390 --> 01:08:50,400
where there's doors that are camouflaged

1729
01:08:54,630 --> 01:08:52,400
they're very artfully camouflaged

1730
01:08:57,430 --> 01:08:54,640
but uh they open up and uh craft come

1731
01:08:59,110 --> 01:08:57,440
out and he's seen aliens uh in in the

1732
01:09:01,349 --> 01:08:59,120
neighborhood there and he's

1733
01:09:04,149 --> 01:09:01,359
he's been monitoring this uh i think

1734
01:09:05,749 --> 01:09:04,159
since the late 90s early 2000s and all

1735
01:09:08,550 --> 01:09:05,759
of a sudden i get an email from this

1736
01:09:09,669 --> 01:09:08,560
person saying he wants to take me there

1737
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:09,679
so

1738
01:09:13,269 --> 01:09:11,199
you know i mean a lot of your research

1739
01:09:15,669 --> 01:09:13,279
into cattle mutes i mean you know

1740
01:09:17,590 --> 01:09:15,679
yourself there's multiple theories and

1741
01:09:18,789 --> 01:09:17,600
one of the theories is that the ufo

1742
01:09:20,390 --> 01:09:18,799
angle

1743
01:09:22,390 --> 01:09:20,400
act as a cover for

1744
01:09:24,709 --> 01:09:22,400
you know sort of domestic

1745
01:09:26,309 --> 01:09:24,719
experiments you know whether it's to

1746
01:09:28,149 --> 01:09:26,319
figure out if there are viruses in the

1747
01:09:30,229 --> 01:09:28,159
food chain or you know all sorts of

1748
01:09:31,990 --> 01:09:30,239
weird stuff i mean whether the theories

1749
01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:32,000
are correct or not you know there is

1750
01:09:36,390 --> 01:09:34,560
that angle that the ufo

1751
01:09:38,630 --> 01:09:36,400
aspect of cattle mutilations has been

1752
01:09:40,870 --> 01:09:38,640
encouraged you know as a umbrella for

1753
01:09:43,990 --> 01:09:40,880
something else i've been saying that for

1754
01:09:45,829 --> 01:09:44,000
uh much to the chagrin of

1755
01:09:47,829 --> 01:09:45,839
a few researchers out there who tout the

1756
01:09:50,550 --> 01:09:47,839
uh the alien angle um i've been saying

1757
01:09:52,149 --> 01:09:50,560
that for years as many listeners

1758
01:09:53,749 --> 01:09:52,159
of the paracast are aware and readers of

1759
01:09:55,910 --> 01:09:53,759
my books i think that there's something

1760
01:09:57,830 --> 01:09:55,920
much more terrestrial going on and i

1761
01:09:59,750 --> 01:09:57,840
think the same can be said uh with your

1762
01:10:02,149 --> 01:09:59,760
work in looking at roswell and looking

1763
01:10:04,229 --> 01:10:02,159
at the whole ufo subject kind of in

1764
01:10:06,630 --> 01:10:04,239
general that there's a lot of miss and

1765
01:10:09,350 --> 01:10:06,640
disinformation that has been salted into

1766
01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:09,360
the lexicon and into the narrative and i

1767
01:10:13,270 --> 01:10:11,120
think that it's it's perfect fodder for

1768
01:10:16,470 --> 01:10:13,280
people that really don't have the time

1769
01:10:19,189 --> 01:10:16,480
or the inclination or the ability to to

1770
01:10:21,669 --> 01:10:19,199
dig into these subjects uh deeper uh to

1771
01:10:23,189 --> 01:10:21,679
the extent that you do or some other uh

1772
01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:23,199
researchers who i have a lot of respect

1773
01:10:27,830 --> 01:10:25,520
for they just rather believe the stuff

1774
01:10:29,669 --> 01:10:27,840
that rings true to them and when you ask

1775
01:10:30,390 --> 01:10:29,679
them why do you believe this well how do

1776
01:10:32,390 --> 01:10:30,400
you know

1777
01:10:35,030 --> 01:10:32,400
that this is true and why do you why do

1778
01:10:37,110 --> 01:10:35,040
you feel so strongly this is true pretty

1779
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:37,120
much by and large everybody says well uh

1780
01:10:41,910 --> 01:10:39,760
my intuition tells me it's it's true and

1781
01:10:44,310 --> 01:10:41,920
i'm sorry but you can't go on just

1782
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:44,320
straight gut feelings and intuition when

1783
01:10:49,270 --> 01:10:46,719
it comes to such a complicated subject

1784
01:10:51,030 --> 01:10:49,280
as the paranormal or ufology or cattle

1785
01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:51,040
mutilations or whatever it is you've got

1786
01:10:55,189 --> 01:10:53,040
to dig you've got to actually do the

1787
01:10:57,590 --> 01:10:55,199
work there's not enough people out there

1788
01:11:00,229 --> 01:10:57,600
in the uh you know the big audience for

1789
01:11:03,189 --> 01:11:00,239
all this stuff uh the people that tune

1790
01:11:06,149 --> 01:11:03,199
into gaia tv and and go to contact in

1791
01:11:08,310 --> 01:11:06,159
the desert and they so lust after after

1792
01:11:09,350 --> 01:11:08,320
wanting to believe that they just really

1793
01:11:11,110 --> 01:11:09,360
um

1794
01:11:13,430 --> 01:11:11,120
they really don't have a proper

1795
01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:13,440
perspective i think i'm sure nick you

1796
01:11:16,630 --> 01:11:14,640
would agree

1797
01:11:18,630 --> 01:11:16,640
i i fully agree what you said and i

1798
01:11:20,310 --> 01:11:18,640
think there's also another angle and

1799
01:11:21,750 --> 01:11:20,320
that is there are certain people in

1800
01:11:24,390 --> 01:11:21,760
ufology

1801
01:11:26,390 --> 01:11:24,400
who don't want to upset the apple cart

1802
01:11:28,149 --> 01:11:26,400
because they're fearful of being sort of

1803
01:11:29,990 --> 01:11:28,159
thrown out of the little cliques and

1804
01:11:31,510 --> 01:11:30,000
groups with the you know the certain

1805
01:11:33,990 --> 01:11:31,520
people who always hang out at certain

1806
01:11:36,149 --> 01:11:34,000
conferences they don't want to risk

1807
01:11:38,310 --> 01:11:36,159
losing their position on the conference

1808
01:11:40,790 --> 01:11:38,320
stage they want to be able to continue

1809
01:11:43,350 --> 01:11:40,800
doing the tv shoots they don't want to

1810
01:11:45,350 --> 01:11:43,360
risk upsetting the old-timers who are

1811
01:11:47,990 --> 01:11:45,360
influential and can get them further up

1812
01:11:51,189 --> 01:11:48,000
the ladder you know it's basically not

1813
01:11:53,189 --> 01:11:51,199
wanting to rock the roswell scenario

1814
01:11:55,350 --> 01:11:53,199
because you prefer to kiss ass you know

1815
01:11:57,270 --> 01:11:55,360
to get on in ufology it doesn't seem to

1816
01:11:59,430 --> 01:11:57,280
be harming you nick

1817
01:12:01,189 --> 01:11:59,440
well that's because you know i people

1818
01:12:02,870 --> 01:12:01,199
know i say what i think and and there

1819
01:12:05,430 --> 01:12:02,880
are conferences where they may not want

1820
01:12:07,350 --> 01:12:05,440
me but i'm not going to lose sleep over

1821
01:12:09,030 --> 01:12:07,360
that i'm just going to say what i think

1822
01:12:11,189 --> 01:12:09,040
and if people don't like it well to hell

1823
01:12:13,910 --> 01:12:11,199
with them i don't care but there are

1824
01:12:15,910 --> 01:12:13,920
people who do care my view is that i do

1825
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:15,920
it my way if it turns out to be the

1826
01:12:19,830 --> 01:12:17,760
right way great if i was duped on

1827
01:12:21,830 --> 01:12:19,840
something i'm going to say why i was

1828
01:12:23,830 --> 01:12:21,840
duped and how it happened i mean it was

1829
01:12:26,070 --> 01:12:23,840
like when the roswell slides thing when

1830
01:12:28,870 --> 01:12:26,080
that was shown to be a mummy there were

1831
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:28,880
still researchers who didn't want to be

1832
01:12:32,870 --> 01:12:31,199
be critical of the research of the

1833
01:12:35,750 --> 01:12:32,880
roswell slides community that was

1834
01:12:37,270 --> 01:12:35,760
looking into it there are people yeah

1835
01:12:39,430 --> 01:12:37,280
that's because they were friends with

1836
01:12:41,590 --> 01:12:39,440
them they were colleagues they worked

1837
01:12:42,550 --> 01:12:41,600
together and they they felt awkward

1838
01:12:44,470 --> 01:12:42,560
about

1839
01:12:47,270 --> 01:12:44,480
criticizing them well you know that's

1840
01:12:49,430 --> 01:12:47,280
too bad if somebody screws up

1841
01:12:51,750 --> 01:12:49,440
well make sure that the world knows or

1842
01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:51,760
the you know the ufo community knows i

1843
01:12:55,510 --> 01:12:54,000
mean i see this at conferences where

1844
01:12:58,550 --> 01:12:55,520
somebody will talk about something

1845
01:12:59,830 --> 01:12:58,560
really controversial and another person

1846
01:13:02,630 --> 01:12:59,840
on the panel

1847
01:13:04,790 --> 01:13:02,640
won't criticize them because they know

1848
01:13:07,110 --> 01:13:04,800
that person's got a lot of clouts and a

1849
01:13:09,669 --> 01:13:07,120
lot of followers and so they they try

1850
01:13:11,990 --> 01:13:09,679
and worm their way around it and squirm

1851
01:13:12,790 --> 01:13:12,000
without actually saying anything at all

1852
01:13:14,470 --> 01:13:12,800
you know

1853
01:13:17,350 --> 01:13:14,480
i should take one of their workshops

1854
01:13:19,430 --> 01:13:17,360
because it doesn't stop me i pride

1855
01:13:21,110 --> 01:13:19,440
myself on being that that little boy in

1856
01:13:23,430 --> 01:13:21,120
the parade route pointing at the naked

1857
01:13:26,870 --> 01:13:23,440
emperors or empresses walking uh

1858
01:13:29,990 --> 01:13:28,550
you know again this this just really

1859
01:13:32,229 --> 01:13:30,000
boils down to

1860
01:13:34,149 --> 01:13:32,239
whether this is entertainment or whether

1861
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:34,159
this is real hard-boiled research and

1862
01:13:37,910 --> 01:13:35,600
investigation

1863
01:13:39,350 --> 01:13:37,920
and unfortunately many of the people

1864
01:13:41,510 --> 01:13:39,360
interested in these subjects can't tell

1865
01:13:43,510 --> 01:13:41,520
the difference it's really sad

1866
01:13:44,950 --> 01:13:43,520
i think it's slowly changing we just had

1867
01:13:47,830 --> 01:13:44,960
a very interesting

1868
01:13:49,430 --> 01:13:47,840
16 year old on the show uh who's a a

1869
01:13:52,390 --> 01:13:49,440
paranormal researcher

1870
01:13:54,550 --> 01:13:52,400
his cryptozoology is his real passion he

1871
01:13:56,950 --> 01:13:54,560
sounded so level-headed and and when

1872
01:13:58,950 --> 01:13:56,960
john greenwald came out in the mid 90s

1873
01:14:00,149 --> 01:13:58,960
as a 14 year old

1874
01:14:01,910 --> 01:14:00,159
look at look at how much he's

1875
01:14:04,790 --> 01:14:01,920
accomplished i i really do think that

1876
01:14:06,630 --> 01:14:04,800
there's hope for the field with the the

1877
01:14:08,310 --> 01:14:06,640
quality of young people that are coming

1878
01:14:11,030 --> 01:14:08,320
along and really looking at this

1879
01:14:13,590 --> 01:14:11,040
dispassionately and and really digging

1880
01:14:15,510 --> 01:14:13,600
in and doing the research until you do

1881
01:14:17,990 --> 01:14:15,520
that you can't make a determination

1882
01:14:19,510 --> 01:14:18,000
whether something is legitimate or

1883
01:14:21,110 --> 01:14:19,520
whether it's fantasy you know

1884
01:14:23,030 --> 01:14:21,120
unfortunately i think

1885
01:14:24,310 --> 01:14:23,040
like i said sound like a broken record

1886
01:14:26,630 --> 01:14:24,320
the majority of people interested in

1887
01:14:28,550 --> 01:14:26,640
these subjects can't tell the difference

1888
01:14:30,149 --> 01:14:28,560
well that's the problem ufology has its

1889
01:14:32,630 --> 01:14:30,159
own laws where

1890
01:14:34,790 --> 01:14:32,640
a great story has to be true or we

1891
01:14:37,430 --> 01:14:34,800
really want it to be true there's also

1892
01:14:39,030 --> 01:14:37,440
the issue of so many people in ufology

1893
01:14:40,390 --> 01:14:39,040
can't keep their mouth shut you know

1894
01:14:42,310 --> 01:14:40,400
they'll talk about this they'll talk

1895
01:14:43,990 --> 01:14:42,320
about that before it's even been fully

1896
01:14:45,910 --> 01:14:44,000
investigated and then somebody else

1897
01:14:48,310 --> 01:14:45,920
jumps into it and before you know it

1898
01:14:50,709 --> 01:14:48,320
it's some big unholy mess you know i

1899
01:14:53,590 --> 01:14:50,719
think the ideal approach is to keep your

1900
01:14:55,750 --> 01:14:53,600
data as close to hand as you can and

1901
01:14:57,189 --> 01:14:55,760
when you're ready then put it out for

1902
01:14:59,830 --> 01:14:57,199
everybody to see

1903
01:15:02,149 --> 01:14:59,840
all the material and not sort of have it

1904
01:15:03,430 --> 01:15:02,159
come out in snippets or through chinese

1905
01:15:05,189 --> 01:15:03,440
whispers or

1906
01:15:06,630 --> 01:15:05,199
rumors or have you heard what so-and-so

1907
01:15:09,030 --> 01:15:06,640
is doing and that's what happened with

1908
01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:09,040
the roswell slides that nobody got to

1909
01:15:13,189 --> 01:15:11,760
see the slides until the last moment and

1910
01:15:15,990 --> 01:15:13,199
there are all these conjectures and

1911
01:15:17,750 --> 01:15:16,000
theories running around had i been

1912
01:15:20,470 --> 01:15:17,760
the person who had been given those

1913
01:15:22,709 --> 01:15:20,480
slides i wouldn't have told anybody

1914
01:15:24,709 --> 01:15:22,719
apart from people who could perhaps help

1915
01:15:26,709 --> 01:15:24,719
with the investigation

1916
01:15:29,030 --> 01:15:26,719
and put a muzzle on them for them not to

1917
01:15:31,910 --> 01:15:29,040
say anything yeah muzzle everybody

1918
01:15:33,669 --> 01:15:31,920
including me and if it fell apart

1919
01:15:35,750 --> 01:15:33,679
you could discard it and no one ever

1920
01:15:37,910 --> 01:15:35,760
know it wouldn't even come out

1921
01:15:40,550 --> 01:15:37,920
but to actually talk about it and not

1922
01:15:42,470 --> 01:15:40,560
show the slides until the last moment

1923
01:15:44,310 --> 01:15:42,480
that had everybody and his brother

1924
01:15:46,550 --> 01:15:44,320
looking into this wondering what's going

1925
01:15:48,550 --> 01:15:46,560
on is are these actually pictures from

1926
01:15:50,630 --> 01:15:48,560
dead bodies from roswell and then when

1927
01:15:52,870 --> 01:15:50,640
we finally saw it days before it all

1928
01:15:55,590 --> 01:15:52,880
collapsed he was this sort of poor

1929
01:15:58,550 --> 01:15:55,600
little mummified kid in a museum you

1930
01:16:01,270 --> 01:15:58,560
know that could have been totally nipped

1931
01:16:03,510 --> 01:16:01,280
in the bud immediately you know but it

1932
01:16:05,510 --> 01:16:03,520
wasn't and that's you followed his

1933
01:16:08,550 --> 01:16:05,520
problem how could something so dried up

1934
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:08,560
and and desiccated be from roswell if if

1935
01:16:12,790 --> 01:16:11,440
it was the photograph was taken in 47

1936
01:16:14,550 --> 01:16:12,800
it would have had to have been taken

1937
01:16:17,030 --> 01:16:14,560
years before that or the body would have

1938
01:16:19,510 --> 01:16:17,040
been interned years before that for the

1939
01:16:21,430 --> 01:16:19,520
amount of of mummification that

1940
01:16:22,310 --> 01:16:21,440
obviously was was probably uh due to a

1941
01:16:25,030 --> 01:16:22,320
dry

1942
01:16:26,709 --> 01:16:25,040
environment um that very fact alone put

1943
01:16:28,229 --> 01:16:26,719
the whole thing in question it should

1944
01:16:31,910 --> 01:16:28,239
have put the whole thing in question too

1945
01:16:33,750 --> 01:16:31,920
uh uh schmidt and kerry and uh the other

1946
01:16:36,790 --> 01:16:33,760
the other supporters of

1947
01:16:39,030 --> 01:16:36,800
jaime massan let's continue with more

1948
01:16:49,270 --> 01:16:39,040
with nick redfearn and gene and chris

1949
01:16:53,390 --> 01:16:52,470
thank you for listening to gcn

1950
01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:53,400
visit

1951
01:17:00,870 --> 01:16:59,430
homeowners have much more to worry about

1952
01:17:02,709 --> 01:17:00,880
than just making their mortgage payment

1953
01:17:04,149 --> 01:17:02,719
can you afford to repair or replace your

1954
01:17:05,910 --> 01:17:04,159
air conditioning when it stops working

1955
01:17:07,669 --> 01:17:05,920
this summer or worse a major plumbing

1956
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:07,679
problem with national home you can say

1957
01:17:10,870 --> 01:17:09,520
goodbye to repair bills if you own a

1958
01:17:12,950 --> 01:17:10,880
home you can stop paying for these

1959
01:17:14,550 --> 01:17:12,960
costly repairs best of all call now to

1960
01:17:15,990 --> 01:17:14,560
get one month of repair coverage for

1961
01:17:17,910 --> 01:17:16,000
free get total protection for your

1962
01:17:19,910 --> 01:17:17,920
home's major appliances and systems so

1963
01:17:21,310 --> 01:17:19,920
you have no more costly repair bills

1964
01:17:22,630 --> 01:17:21,320
call

1965
01:17:27,669 --> 01:17:22,640
800-887-3022 that's

1966
01:17:31,189 --> 01:17:29,510
in these uncertain times it makes sense

1967
01:17:33,110 --> 01:17:31,199
to have a sustainable backup method to

1968
01:17:35,270 --> 01:17:33,120
cook food and boil water if your current

1969
01:17:37,030 --> 01:17:35,280
plan includes using a fuel burning stove

1970
01:17:39,030 --> 01:17:37,040
or cooking over an open fire then

1971
01:17:40,870 --> 01:17:39,040
there's a much better way the minuteman

1972
01:17:42,870 --> 01:17:40,880
rocket stove is a biomass burning

1973
01:17:44,870 --> 01:17:42,880
cooking stove that only requires small

1974
01:17:46,709 --> 01:17:44,880
quantities of sticks and twigs for fuel

1975
01:17:48,310 --> 01:17:46,719
the minuteman stove is easy to use

1976
01:17:50,310 --> 01:17:48,320
smokeless portable powerful and

1977
01:17:52,229 --> 01:17:50,320
sustainable for the finest and survival

1978
01:17:54,110 --> 01:17:52,239
cooking stoves and fire starters made

1979
01:17:55,510 --> 01:17:54,120
right here in the usa go to

1980
01:17:59,350 --> 01:17:55,520
minutemanstove.com that's

1981
01:18:02,709 --> 01:18:00,630
attention business owners and

1982
01:18:04,550 --> 01:18:02,719
independent contractors this is a money

1983
01:18:07,669 --> 01:18:04,560
saving message from tax mediation

1984
01:18:10,229 --> 01:18:07,679
services if your business owes 20 000 or

1985
01:18:13,110 --> 01:18:10,239
more in taxes we can help you today

1986
01:18:15,110 --> 01:18:13,120
right now listen dealing with the irs is

1987
01:18:17,510 --> 01:18:15,120
no picnic it's an intimidating and

1988
01:18:19,590 --> 01:18:17,520
extremely stressful process and you

1989
01:18:22,870 --> 01:18:19,600
don't want to go it alone our attorneys

1990
01:18:25,430 --> 01:18:22,880
know every law every tax break and every

1991
01:18:27,830 --> 01:18:25,440
possible opportunity to help you resolve

1992
01:18:29,510 --> 01:18:27,840
and reduce your tax debt and if you owe

1993
01:18:31,590 --> 01:18:29,520
more than twenty thousand dollars you

1994
01:18:33,590 --> 01:18:31,600
may be at the top of their hit list so

1995
01:18:36,310 --> 01:18:33,600
don't take your tax debt lightly because

1996
01:18:38,550 --> 01:18:36,320
it will not go away on its own the irs

1997
01:18:41,270 --> 01:18:38,560
can seize your bank accounts your home

1998
01:18:46,550 --> 01:18:41,280
and even shut down your business call

1999
01:18:50,709 --> 01:18:49,189
and let us deal with the irs while you

2000
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:50,719
focus on your business that's

2001
01:18:54,480 --> 01:18:59,189
again that's 800-765-9681

2002
01:19:03,430 --> 01:19:01,510
heart disease is on the rise clogged

2003
01:19:05,350 --> 01:19:03,440
arteries high blood pressure and high

2004
01:19:07,510 --> 01:19:05,360
cholesterol levels may not be fully

2005
01:19:09,990 --> 01:19:07,520
detected by you but the symptoms are

2006
01:19:12,390 --> 01:19:10,000
there loss of energy blood sugar spikes

2007
01:19:14,310 --> 01:19:12,400
and drops poor circulation and irregular

2008
01:19:16,390 --> 01:19:14,320
heartbeat are just a few of these that

2009
01:19:18,470 --> 01:19:16,400
can alert you that something is wrong

2010
01:19:20,310 --> 01:19:18,480
hear how heart and body extract is

2011
01:19:22,870 --> 01:19:20,320
making a difference in thousands of

2012
01:19:25,189 --> 01:19:22,880
people's lives across america my blood

2013
01:19:27,110 --> 01:19:25,199
pressure has normalized my diabetes has

2014
01:19:28,950 --> 01:19:27,120
totally improved everyone is telling me

2015
01:19:30,709 --> 01:19:28,960
now how much healthier i look and i'm

2016
01:19:32,390 --> 01:19:30,719
telling everyone how much healthy i feel

2017
01:19:34,630 --> 01:19:32,400
i recommend heart and body extract to

2018
01:19:37,110 --> 01:19:34,640
everyone anybody over 40 in the north

2019
01:19:39,110 --> 01:19:37,120
american continent should be using this

2020
01:19:41,350 --> 01:19:39,120
product as a preventative to keep their

2021
01:19:44,830 --> 01:19:41,360
cardiovascular system healthy order your

2022
01:19:47,709 --> 01:19:44,840
two-month supply today by calling

2023
01:19:49,910 --> 01:19:47,719
866-295-5305 that's

2024
01:19:51,910 --> 01:19:49,920
866-295-5305 or order online

2025
01:19:54,830 --> 01:19:51,920
hbxtract.com

2026
01:19:58,229 --> 01:19:54,840
heart and body extract

2027
01:19:59,830 --> 01:19:58,239
866-295-5305 or hbxtract.com

2028
01:20:01,750 --> 01:19:59,840
have you checked your google search

2029
01:20:03,510 --> 01:20:01,760
results lately search results are

2030
01:20:05,350 --> 01:20:03,520
usually the first impression that people

2031
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form of you or your business so make

2032
01:20:08,510 --> 01:20:06,960
sure that they create a positive

2033
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2034
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2035
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2036
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2037
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it's not true fortunately you can now

2038
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2039
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2040
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2041
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2042
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2043
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2044
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2045
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from an ex-employee upset patient or

2046
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2047
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2048
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2049
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can combat it with

2050
01:20:44,070 --> 01:20:42,159
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2051
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2052
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2053
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2054
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800-831-071 to learn more

2055
01:21:08,470 --> 01:20:54,960
800-831-07-71 that's 800-831-07-71

2056
01:21:12,790 --> 01:21:11,110
this is robert hastings author of ufos

2057
01:21:15,510 --> 01:21:12,800
and nukes and you're listening to the

2058
01:21:22,550 --> 01:21:15,520
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

2059
01:21:26,830 --> 01:21:24,550
nixon rare form

2060
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:26,840
his book is the roswell ufo

2061
01:21:31,669 --> 01:21:28,800
conspiracy and i should point out to our

2062
01:21:33,669 --> 01:21:31,679
readers it's a compact book

2063
01:21:34,630 --> 01:21:33,679
it's a quick read

2064
01:21:35,910 --> 01:21:34,640
and

2065
01:21:37,910 --> 01:21:35,920
it really

2066
01:21:40,790 --> 01:21:37,920
takes you to

2067
01:21:43,830 --> 01:21:40,800
some interesting points of view in terms

2068
01:21:45,910 --> 01:21:43,840
of not just this case but how

2069
01:21:49,350 --> 01:21:45,920
the government may have influenced a lot

2070
01:21:51,030 --> 01:21:49,360
of ufo cases now here's an interesting

2071
01:21:53,510 --> 01:21:51,040
point to mention

2072
01:21:56,470 --> 01:21:53,520
nick in looking at this book 12 years

2073
01:21:58,470 --> 01:21:56,480
after body snatchers in the desert

2074
01:22:00,550 --> 01:21:58,480
is there anything today that you would

2075
01:22:02,790 --> 01:22:00,560
change about the original book

2076
01:22:04,790 --> 01:22:02,800
well i wouldn't change it so much but

2077
01:22:05,830 --> 01:22:04,800
what i did was to the new book was to

2078
01:22:07,990 --> 01:22:05,840
add

2079
01:22:11,350 --> 01:22:08,000
certain information on the people i

2080
01:22:13,270 --> 01:22:11,360
spoke to and how i came to meet them now

2081
01:22:14,870 --> 01:22:13,280
when simon and schuster published body

2082
01:22:17,830 --> 01:22:14,880
snatches in the desert

2083
01:22:21,189 --> 01:22:17,840
the editorial team wanted it basically

2084
01:22:22,870 --> 01:22:21,199
just all the data but i felt that

2085
01:22:24,950 --> 01:22:22,880
there was so some capital could be

2086
01:22:26,790 --> 01:22:24,960
gained by explaining how i actually got

2087
01:22:29,510 --> 01:22:26,800
to meet these people and under what

2088
01:22:31,189 --> 01:22:29,520
circumstances so in the new book i've

2089
01:22:33,270 --> 01:22:31,199
talked about that because that actually

2090
01:22:35,030 --> 01:22:33,280
is part of the story as to how i got

2091
01:22:36,950 --> 01:22:35,040
involved with them you know it wasn't

2092
01:22:38,950 --> 01:22:36,960
like oh you know we'll just contact nick

2093
01:22:39,669 --> 01:22:38,960
redford and tell him it was sort of like

2094
01:22:45,830 --> 01:22:39,679
a

2095
01:22:46,950 --> 01:22:45,840
led me to these people one by one so i

2096
01:22:50,390 --> 01:22:46,960
would have liked to put that in the

2097
01:22:52,709 --> 01:22:50,400
first one but the data hopefully alone

2098
01:22:54,229 --> 01:22:52,719
you know told the story but i did feel

2099
01:22:56,229 --> 01:22:54,239
at some point it was important to get

2100
01:22:58,629 --> 01:22:56,239
that across so i've done that with the

2101
01:23:00,950 --> 01:22:58,639
new one but i i wouldn't have done

2102
01:23:02,950 --> 01:23:00,960
things sort of too much different i mean

2103
01:23:04,709 --> 01:23:02,960
with the new one what i've done

2104
01:23:07,430 --> 01:23:04,719
obviously is to sort of provide a

2105
01:23:09,750 --> 01:23:07,440
summary of body snatchers for people who

2106
01:23:11,350 --> 01:23:09,760
haven't read the first one but then to

2107
01:23:14,070 --> 01:23:11,360
sort of pretty much

2108
01:23:16,070 --> 01:23:14,080
go into the new material well actually

2109
01:23:17,910 --> 01:23:16,080
there is one thing that i would have uh

2110
01:23:20,470 --> 01:23:17,920
changed in the first book and i and i

2111
01:23:22,070 --> 01:23:20,480
stress this in the new one is that

2112
01:23:24,550 --> 01:23:22,080
people were saying oh this is nick

2113
01:23:27,669 --> 01:23:24,560
redfern's theory nick redfern's story

2114
01:23:29,910 --> 01:23:27,679
not realizing or actually ignoring

2115
01:23:31,750 --> 01:23:29,920
that multiple people have been given the

2116
01:23:33,830 --> 01:23:31,760
same story but nobody else had been

2117
01:23:35,590 --> 01:23:33,840
written a book on on it let me give you

2118
01:23:38,950 --> 01:23:35,600
an example because i talk about this in

2119
01:23:40,790 --> 01:23:38,960
in the new book back in 1997 which was

2120
01:23:42,870 --> 01:23:40,800
the 60th anniversary

2121
01:23:45,590 --> 01:23:42,880
of roswell when the air force came out

2122
01:23:48,550 --> 01:23:45,600
with the crash test dummies and corsair

2123
01:23:50,629 --> 01:23:48,560
came out with his book popular mechanics

2124
01:23:52,950 --> 01:23:50,639
were approached by a source who they

2125
01:23:54,470 --> 01:23:52,960
didn't reveal who said that there was

2126
01:23:56,629 --> 01:23:54,480
going to be a forthcoming release of

2127
01:23:59,030 --> 01:23:56,639
documents that would tell the story of a

2128
01:24:01,189 --> 01:23:59,040
japanese equivalent of paper clip and

2129
01:24:03,990 --> 01:24:01,199
that the bodies would be shown to be

2130
01:24:04,950 --> 01:24:04,000
japanese personnel up on this program

2131
01:24:06,709 --> 01:24:04,960
that

2132
01:24:08,229 --> 01:24:06,719
story didn't go any further apparently

2133
01:24:10,229 --> 01:24:08,239
the fight well obviously the files did

2134
01:24:12,470 --> 01:24:10,239
not surface but popular mechanics said

2135
01:24:14,790 --> 01:24:12,480
that they had a source who told them

2136
01:24:17,189 --> 01:24:14,800
that that was the story and this was

2137
01:24:18,870 --> 01:24:17,199
sort of eight years before body

2138
01:24:20,709 --> 01:24:18,880
snatchers came out

2139
01:24:22,470 --> 01:24:20,719
now john keel

2140
01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:22,480
it wasn't just his theory that it was a

2141
01:24:26,790 --> 01:24:24,480
japanese balloon as i pointed out in the

2142
01:24:29,510 --> 01:24:26,800
book he had a number of sources who told

2143
01:24:30,950 --> 01:24:29,520
him the story of the japanese flights

2144
01:24:34,470 --> 01:24:30,960
etc

2145
01:24:36,470 --> 01:24:34,480
in the early 1990s leonard stringfield

2146
01:24:40,070 --> 01:24:36,480
in one of his status reports on crashed

2147
01:24:42,550 --> 01:24:40,080
ufos he published a story of sort of a

2148
01:24:43,910 --> 01:24:42,560
sort of um genetically not sort of

2149
01:24:46,390 --> 01:24:43,920
genetically altered the wrong term

2150
01:24:48,870 --> 01:24:46,400
people who had sort of genetic handicaps

2151
01:24:52,070 --> 01:24:48,880
who were used in um radiation

2152
01:24:54,149 --> 01:24:52,080
experiments at los alamos in the 40s so

2153
01:24:55,510 --> 01:24:54,159
in other words there were threads of

2154
01:24:57,669 --> 01:24:55,520
this story

2155
01:25:00,149 --> 01:24:57,679
going back years which had nothing to do

2156
01:25:02,550 --> 01:25:00,159
with me in which some cases came sort of

2157
01:25:05,110 --> 01:25:02,560
14 15 years before

2158
01:25:07,510 --> 01:25:05,120
my book came out but people insisted on

2159
01:25:10,229 --> 01:25:07,520
saying oh it's nick redford's theory or

2160
01:25:12,310 --> 01:25:10,239
his story it wasn't as i said the only

2161
01:25:13,830 --> 01:25:12,320
difference was that i dug into it

2162
01:25:15,669 --> 01:25:13,840
further to the point where i could write

2163
01:25:17,669 --> 01:25:15,679
a full-length book on it whereas

2164
01:25:20,149 --> 01:25:17,679
somebody like keel did a small article

2165
01:25:22,390 --> 01:25:20,159
for fate but it was basically strands of

2166
01:25:24,390 --> 01:25:22,400
the same story so i would have

2167
01:25:26,229 --> 01:25:24,400
emphasized that more in the first book

2168
01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:26,239
but at least you know i've been able to

2169
01:25:29,990 --> 01:25:28,080
to do it now so

2170
01:25:33,669 --> 01:25:30,000
there goes nick again throwing the turd

2171
01:25:37,830 --> 01:25:35,750
well you know hey somebody's got to do

2172
01:25:39,750 --> 01:25:37,840
it man i really applaud you

2173
01:25:41,669 --> 01:25:39,760
well i don't do deliberate i just don't

2174
01:25:44,390 --> 01:25:41,679
shy away from

2175
01:25:45,990 --> 01:25:44,400
telling it as it is you know if it

2176
01:25:48,470 --> 01:25:46,000
you know if it doesn't fit the facts

2177
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:48,480
that it doesn't fit the what ufology

2178
01:25:51,990 --> 01:25:49,920
wants to hear

2179
01:25:54,310 --> 01:25:52,000
i'm not gonna say well it does fit just

2180
01:25:56,870 --> 01:25:54,320
for the sake of appeasing this one

2181
01:25:58,390 --> 01:25:56,880
conference organizer who gets me on the

2182
01:26:00,149 --> 01:25:58,400
bill every year you know i'm not going

2183
01:26:01,910 --> 01:26:00,159
to worry if he throws me off next year

2184
01:26:03,189 --> 01:26:01,920
because he doesn't like this book you

2185
01:26:04,390 --> 01:26:03,199
know that that's

2186
01:26:07,189 --> 01:26:04,400
if you haven't got the strength of

2187
01:26:08,790 --> 01:26:07,199
character to just stand behind your own

2188
01:26:10,390 --> 01:26:08,800
stuff without worrying what someone else

2189
01:26:13,350 --> 01:26:10,400
is going to say you might as well give

2190
01:26:15,990 --> 01:26:13,360
up you know that's his loss right

2191
01:26:17,750 --> 01:26:16,000
yeah yeah exactly

2192
01:26:20,629 --> 01:26:17,760
but looking at this here

2193
01:26:23,189 --> 01:26:20,639
in light of this book and in live the

2194
01:26:25,910 --> 01:26:23,199
things that you've learned

2195
01:26:28,950 --> 01:26:25,920
doesn't that really raise

2196
01:26:31,510 --> 01:26:28,960
the demand on the ufo field to just take

2197
01:26:33,830 --> 01:26:31,520
a new look at all the old cases

2198
01:26:35,270 --> 01:26:33,840
from stem to stern i know kevin randle's

2199
01:26:37,110 --> 01:26:35,280
been doing a lot of that but he's just

2200
01:26:39,510 --> 01:26:37,120
one guy

2201
01:26:41,990 --> 01:26:39,520
well yeah i mean there is that aspect to

2202
01:26:43,270 --> 01:26:42,000
it but equally i think you know ufology

2203
01:26:45,270 --> 01:26:43,280
is so

2204
01:26:46,390 --> 01:26:45,280
driven by the whole i want to believe

2205
01:26:47,350 --> 01:26:46,400
factor

2206
01:26:49,270 --> 01:26:47,360
that

2207
01:26:51,270 --> 01:26:49,280
you know a significant number of

2208
01:26:53,669 --> 01:26:51,280
conferences won't want me to speak about

2209
01:26:55,590 --> 01:26:53,679
it you know particularly if they've got

2210
01:26:57,750 --> 01:26:55,600
people new to the subject i can see some

2211
01:26:59,430 --> 01:26:57,760
of these organizers thinking well hang

2212
01:27:01,510 --> 01:26:59,440
on a minute we're going to have a bunch

2213
01:27:03,990 --> 01:27:01,520
of young people coming along who knew

2214
01:27:05,669 --> 01:27:04,000
and nick's going to be talking about how

2215
01:27:06,950 --> 01:27:05,679
aliens didn't crash at roswell you know

2216
01:27:09,350 --> 01:27:06,960
the best thing to do is we won't have

2217
01:27:11,030 --> 01:27:09,360
him speak i can see that happening a lot

2218
01:27:12,709 --> 01:27:11,040
you know but um

2219
01:27:14,550 --> 01:27:12,719
but i'm not going to change my views on

2220
01:27:16,830 --> 01:27:14,560
it you know if i don't like it to help

2221
01:27:21,669 --> 01:27:16,840
with them um

2222
01:27:23,990 --> 01:27:21,679
but i do think it should have its um

2223
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:24,000
you know its fair share the reason being

2224
01:27:29,750 --> 01:27:27,120
that if people deliberately ignore it

2225
01:27:32,870 --> 01:27:29,760
what's happening is that ufology is

2226
01:27:34,629 --> 01:27:32,880
effectively self-censoring itself

2227
01:27:37,590 --> 01:27:34,639
you know yeah it's intellectual

2228
01:27:40,070 --> 01:27:37,600
dishonesty yeah and that's as bad as you

2229
01:27:42,070 --> 01:27:40,080
know if a ufo case is hidden by the

2230
01:27:44,550 --> 01:27:42,080
military or the government you know

2231
01:27:46,870 --> 01:27:44,560
we're trying to expose it if we start

2232
01:27:49,110 --> 01:27:46,880
self-censoring because it's going to

2233
01:27:51,270 --> 01:27:49,120
upset the apple cart like i said earlier

2234
01:27:52,709 --> 01:27:51,280
or you know people are just going to be

2235
01:27:53,990 --> 01:27:52,719
upset that aliens didn't crash at

2236
01:27:55,510 --> 01:27:54,000
roswell so

2237
01:27:57,510 --> 01:27:55,520
they you know they look into a different

2238
01:27:59,669 --> 01:27:57,520
direction well that's

2239
01:28:01,590 --> 01:27:59,679
that that's a that's a big tragedy you

2240
01:28:03,510 --> 01:28:01,600
know that um

2241
01:28:05,669 --> 01:28:03,520
the people would actually self-censor

2242
01:28:07,750 --> 01:28:05,679
ufology for the sake of

2243
01:28:09,350 --> 01:28:07,760
you know getting another few people on

2244
01:28:11,590 --> 01:28:09,360
in the lecture theater or whatever at

2245
01:28:13,750 --> 01:28:11,600
twenty dollars a time or something i

2246
01:28:15,830 --> 01:28:13,760
wonder here as we talk about this we can

2247
01:28:18,310 --> 01:28:15,840
continue on our next segment

2248
01:28:20,470 --> 01:28:18,320
whether some of the early cases of ufo

2249
01:28:22,550 --> 01:28:20,480
abductions were in part

2250
01:28:24,950 --> 01:28:22,560
military experiments or completely

2251
01:28:27,270 --> 01:28:24,960
military experiments and i still think

2252
01:28:29,030 --> 01:28:27,280
that occasionally and i've been shot

2253
01:28:31,430 --> 01:28:29,040
down a thousand times but i'll still say

2254
01:28:33,830 --> 01:28:31,440
it barney and betty hill

2255
01:28:35,110 --> 01:28:33,840
they live near a military base

2256
01:28:37,030 --> 01:28:35,120
many of their friends are in the

2257
01:28:37,990 --> 01:28:37,040
military

2258
01:28:46,149 --> 01:28:38,000
the

2259
01:28:48,629 --> 01:28:46,159
differ from later ufo abductions

2260
01:28:51,270 --> 01:28:48,639
so is it at all possible that

2261
01:28:53,510 --> 01:28:51,280
this particular case or similar cases

2262
01:28:56,470 --> 01:28:53,520
were basically

2263
01:28:58,310 --> 01:28:56,480
mind control experiments of some sort

2264
01:28:59,990 --> 01:28:58,320
well yeah i mean if you look at the the

2265
01:29:02,229 --> 01:29:00,000
era i mean particularly with the space

2266
01:29:03,990 --> 01:29:02,239
brothers you know i mean that would be

2267
01:29:06,310 --> 01:29:04,000
easy to manipulate some of the early

2268
01:29:08,870 --> 01:29:06,320
contact teams because the space brothers

2269
01:29:10,310 --> 01:29:08,880
look just like us you know they weren't

2270
01:29:12,229 --> 01:29:10,320
little greys which would be more

2271
01:29:15,189 --> 01:29:12,239
difficult to sort of uh

2272
01:29:17,270 --> 01:29:15,199
you know uh to do with but i mean in one

2273
01:29:20,149 --> 01:29:17,280
of my early books contactees i talked

2274
01:29:21,910 --> 01:29:20,159
about the case of orpheo angelucci where

2275
01:29:24,870 --> 01:29:21,920
one of the early contactees but

2276
01:29:27,189 --> 01:29:24,880
lesser-known ones and he had some really

2277
01:29:29,350 --> 01:29:27,199
weird experiences he talked about one

2278
01:29:32,149 --> 01:29:29,360
particular case or one time out in the

2279
01:29:32,950 --> 01:29:32,159
california desert when he was due to

2280
01:29:35,189 --> 01:29:32,960
meet

2281
01:29:37,910 --> 01:29:35,199
um this sort of enigmatic character who

2282
01:29:39,830 --> 01:29:37,920
wanted to speak to him and he said they

2283
01:29:43,270 --> 01:29:39,840
went to this particular diner out in the

2284
01:29:45,830 --> 01:29:43,280
california desert and this mysterious

2285
01:29:48,550 --> 01:29:45,840
guy said to angeluci before we talk

2286
01:29:51,110 --> 01:29:48,560
about what i can tell you about ufos

2287
01:29:53,590 --> 01:29:51,120
you need to take this pill and you know

2288
01:29:55,990 --> 01:29:53,600
this was a stranger and

2289
01:29:57,189 --> 01:29:56,000
angelo took it off him and swallowed

2290
01:29:59,669 --> 01:29:57,199
about that

2291
01:30:01,750 --> 01:29:59,679
yeah and within literally within about

2292
01:30:05,030 --> 01:30:01,760
15 minutes he started to feel kind of

2293
01:30:07,030 --> 01:30:05,040
weird and creeped out and then suddenly

2294
01:30:09,030 --> 01:30:07,040
i think it was like on his he had like a

2295
01:30:11,030 --> 01:30:09,040
drink on the table he could see like

2296
01:30:13,189 --> 01:30:11,040
this little ballerina dancing in the

2297
01:30:15,270 --> 01:30:13,199
drink and the room looked more

2298
01:30:17,510 --> 01:30:15,280
brighter and the the colors were more

2299
01:30:20,790 --> 01:30:17,520
defined and it was almost like he was on

2300
01:30:22,870 --> 01:30:20,800
a trip yeah it sounds like lsd yeah well

2301
01:30:23,830 --> 01:30:22,880
what happened then he said that in this

2302
01:30:26,390 --> 01:30:23,840
kind of

2303
01:30:29,030 --> 01:30:26,400
befuddled stupa he said on the table

2304
01:30:31,830 --> 01:30:29,040
next to him were two military guys

2305
01:30:32,629 --> 01:30:31,840
staring intently at him let's break it

2306
01:30:35,030 --> 01:30:32,639
here

2307
01:30:36,390 --> 01:30:35,040
and continue with the story of orpheo

2308
01:30:39,110 --> 01:30:36,400
angelucci

2309
01:30:49,110 --> 01:30:39,120
in the diner with nick redfern and jean

2310
01:30:53,470 --> 01:30:52,629
you are listening to gcn

2311
01:30:54,970 --> 01:30:53,480
visit

2312
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gcnlive.com today

2313
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2410
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hey this is marie d jones the author of

2411
01:35:12,229 --> 01:35:09,600
this book is from the future

2412
01:35:18,230 --> 01:35:12,239
and you are listening to the paracast

2413
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:23,750
[Music]

2414
01:35:31,030 --> 01:35:27,430
so they slip orfeo a tab nick redfern or

2415
01:35:33,030 --> 01:35:31,040
something and he takes it he's so naive

2416
01:35:35,669 --> 01:35:33,040
and what happened from there was that

2417
01:35:37,669 --> 01:35:35,679
instead of this guy promising to

2418
01:35:41,030 --> 01:35:37,679
share what he knew about ufos this guy

2419
01:35:43,510 --> 01:35:41,040
then started pumping angelucci for

2420
01:35:45,750 --> 01:35:43,520
information what do you think about ufos

2421
01:35:47,430 --> 01:35:45,760
do you think people believe in them how

2422
01:35:50,310 --> 01:35:47,440
do you think the public's responding to

2423
01:35:52,709 --> 01:35:50,320
your experiences in other words if what

2424
01:35:54,870 --> 01:35:52,719
if his events were sort of staged like a

2425
01:35:56,870 --> 01:35:54,880
mind control thing they were then trying

2426
01:35:59,350 --> 01:35:56,880
to figure out how successful it was

2427
01:36:01,750 --> 01:35:59,360
working and they got two guys sat on the

2428
01:36:03,910 --> 01:36:01,760
table next to them possibly just to make

2429
01:36:06,149 --> 01:36:03,920
sure nothing went wrong or you know he

2430
01:36:08,470 --> 01:36:06,159
didn't overdose or whatever

2431
01:36:11,030 --> 01:36:08,480
i mean there are a number of cases where

2432
01:36:13,590 --> 01:36:11,040
you could suggest that happened i mean

2433
01:36:15,510 --> 01:36:13,600
for example if you look at the famous uh

2434
01:36:18,870 --> 01:36:15,520
charles hickson and calvin parker case

2435
01:36:21,030 --> 01:36:18,880
at pascagoula mississippi in 73 on that

2436
01:36:23,510 --> 01:36:21,040
stretch of the mississippi river just a

2437
01:36:26,709 --> 01:36:23,520
few miles away there used to be a

2438
01:36:29,590 --> 01:36:26,719
facility there that performed research

2439
01:36:31,350 --> 01:36:29,600
into my manipulation for using chemicals

2440
01:36:33,830 --> 01:36:31,360
you know it's like an outgrowth of the

2441
01:36:35,750 --> 01:36:33,840
mk ultra program in other words it

2442
01:36:38,709 --> 01:36:35,760
wouldn't surprise me at all

2443
01:36:41,990 --> 01:36:38,719
if certain ufo events over the years

2444
01:36:44,390 --> 01:36:42,000
have been manipulated by things like my

2445
01:36:47,350 --> 01:36:44,400
manipulation mind control in you know in

2446
01:36:49,109 --> 01:36:47,360
simple terms as it's known and possibly

2447
01:36:51,189 --> 01:36:49,119
you wouldn't really need to be that

2448
01:36:53,750 --> 01:36:51,199
sophisticated you know you get somebody

2449
01:36:56,790 --> 01:36:53,760
into a really altered state of mind

2450
01:37:00,390 --> 01:36:56,800
create a few props put the person in

2451
01:37:03,350 --> 01:37:00,400
this majorly wasted state into a room

2452
01:37:05,510 --> 01:37:03,360
and then essentially you know

2453
01:37:08,470 --> 01:37:05,520
the seeds would grow it would be almost

2454
01:37:10,149 --> 01:37:08,480
like a ufological johnny appleseed where

2455
01:37:12,310 --> 01:37:10,159
you know the story would spread and the

2456
01:37:14,550 --> 01:37:12,320
seeds would spread it could be like an

2457
01:37:16,070 --> 01:37:14,560
early version of a meme it would just

2458
01:37:18,550 --> 01:37:16,080
spread everywhere

2459
01:37:21,430 --> 01:37:18,560
and so maybe the the if these events

2460
01:37:23,750 --> 01:37:21,440
were staged not much effort might have

2461
01:37:25,189 --> 01:37:23,760
to be put into them because ufology

2462
01:37:27,750 --> 01:37:25,199
would do the rest it would talk about

2463
01:37:29,990 --> 01:37:27,760
the stories and interview the witnesses

2464
01:37:31,910 --> 01:37:30,000
before you know it the image of the

2465
01:37:34,149 --> 01:37:31,920
abduction or the contact case would be

2466
01:37:36,629 --> 01:37:34,159
cemented then well it sure worked that

2467
01:37:38,790 --> 01:37:36,639
way didn't it we don't know for sure you

2468
01:37:41,350 --> 01:37:38,800
know but i wouldn't surprise if you look

2469
01:37:42,149 --> 01:37:41,360
at the time frame things like mk ultra

2470
01:37:44,629 --> 01:37:42,159
and

2471
01:37:46,790 --> 01:37:44,639
lsd experiment you know which were also

2472
01:37:48,629 --> 01:37:46,800
going on in england the british army you

2473
01:37:50,550 --> 01:37:48,639
know had a program in the early 50s

2474
01:37:52,950 --> 01:37:50,560
where they dose without their knowledge

2475
01:37:55,590 --> 01:37:52,960
you know troops and filmed them sort of

2476
01:37:57,510 --> 01:37:55,600
walking around woods on lsd and some of

2477
01:37:59,030 --> 01:37:57,520
these films you can find on youtube you

2478
01:38:00,390 --> 01:37:59,040
know the soldiers are just laughing and

2479
01:38:01,350 --> 01:38:00,400
staggering and wandering around the

2480
01:38:03,590 --> 01:38:01,360
woods

2481
01:38:05,750 --> 01:38:03,600
you know incapable of doing anything

2482
01:38:07,990 --> 01:38:05,760
so time-wise that wouldn't surprise me

2483
01:38:10,310 --> 01:38:08,000
at all and then you have someone like a

2484
01:38:12,229 --> 01:38:10,320
douglas dietrich who um not too many

2485
01:38:15,590 --> 01:38:12,239
people i think really heard of

2486
01:38:18,790 --> 01:38:15,600
he appeared uh briefly a few years ago

2487
01:38:21,669 --> 01:38:18,800
with this idea that um the whole gray

2488
01:38:24,229 --> 01:38:21,679
alien with the slanted eyes was actually

2489
01:38:26,950 --> 01:38:24,239
a subtle way to actually prejudice uh

2490
01:38:28,550 --> 01:38:26,960
asiatic people of asiatic origins and

2491
01:38:30,790 --> 01:38:28,560
and it was a subtle way to brainwash

2492
01:38:32,870 --> 01:38:30,800
people into in into uh

2493
01:38:35,030 --> 01:38:32,880
being in a place of fear and uh and

2494
01:38:37,030 --> 01:38:35,040
possibly in a place of negative feelings

2495
01:38:39,750 --> 01:38:37,040
about people with

2496
01:38:41,109 --> 01:38:39,760
slanted eyes or aliens with slanted eyes

2497
01:38:42,709 --> 01:38:41,119
which which i thought was kind of an

2498
01:38:44,629 --> 01:38:42,719
interesting idea but

2499
01:38:46,470 --> 01:38:44,639
then he goes on to say that the japanese

2500
01:38:48,629 --> 01:38:46,480
actually won world war ii and it was the

2501
01:38:50,629 --> 01:38:48,639
whole end of the war was staged and he

2502
01:38:52,709 --> 01:38:50,639
kind of lost me there and definitely

2503
01:38:56,149 --> 01:38:52,719
lost richard dolan who almost went out

2504
01:38:57,990 --> 01:38:56,159
of his chair at the speaker's panel

2505
01:39:00,629 --> 01:38:58,000
i had to kind of hold him down because

2506
01:39:02,790 --> 01:39:00,639
he he just he was frothing at the mouth

2507
01:39:05,109 --> 01:39:02,800
you know listening to the

2508
01:39:07,990 --> 01:39:05,119
revisionist history but you just never

2509
01:39:10,470 --> 01:39:08,000
know what the government is up to and

2510
01:39:13,270 --> 01:39:10,480
what the rationale is to

2511
01:39:15,590 --> 01:39:13,280
possibly conduct things like

2512
01:39:18,390 --> 01:39:15,600
project monarch project artichoke and

2513
01:39:21,109 --> 01:39:18,400
and some of these uh mind uh altering uh

2514
01:39:23,590 --> 01:39:21,119
drug experiments and and um the cia in

2515
01:39:24,790 --> 01:39:23,600
san francisco you know drugging people

2516
01:39:26,870 --> 01:39:24,800
going to uh

2517
01:39:28,310 --> 01:39:26,880
prostitutes and stuff i mean i don't

2518
01:39:30,950 --> 01:39:28,320
think you can really second guess what

2519
01:39:32,470 --> 01:39:30,960
their what their actual um agenda is in

2520
01:39:34,790 --> 01:39:32,480
a lot of these things and you start

2521
01:39:36,950 --> 01:39:34,800
looking at uh at the army chemical corps

2522
01:39:39,510 --> 01:39:36,960
and sydney gottlieb and then dosing

2523
01:39:41,510 --> 01:39:39,520
frank olson for instance uh at a party

2524
01:39:43,590 --> 01:39:41,520
and then possibly later dosing him again

2525
01:39:45,270 --> 01:39:43,600
which led to his death and you know you

2526
01:39:47,910 --> 01:39:45,280
just you just you know the government is

2527
01:39:49,430 --> 01:39:47,920
just so governments in general

2528
01:39:51,830 --> 01:39:49,440
are really capable of doing some pretty

2529
01:39:55,189 --> 01:39:51,840
horrific things in in the uh under the

2530
01:39:56,709 --> 01:39:55,199
guise of national security and and um

2531
01:39:59,030 --> 01:39:56,719
counterintelligence and those those

2532
01:40:01,590 --> 01:39:59,040
types of practices well i think there

2533
01:40:02,470 --> 01:40:01,600
could be sort of multiple reasons as to

2534
01:40:04,390 --> 01:40:02,480
why

2535
01:40:06,390 --> 01:40:04,400
these experiments could be going on now

2536
01:40:08,070 --> 01:40:06,400
obviously the most

2537
01:40:10,390 --> 01:40:08,080
likely one with things like roswell is

2538
01:40:12,390 --> 01:40:10,400
to actually hide a physical event that

2539
01:40:15,270 --> 01:40:12,400
occurred and try and pass it off as

2540
01:40:17,910 --> 01:40:15,280
something else however what i also think

2541
01:40:21,590 --> 01:40:17,920
is that in some cases the reasoning

2542
01:40:23,910 --> 01:40:21,600
might be to see how easy it is to

2543
01:40:25,030 --> 01:40:23,920
manipulate people's minds and see how

2544
01:40:27,990 --> 01:40:25,040
rumors

2545
01:40:30,390 --> 01:40:28,000
can spread and be perceived as the truth

2546
01:40:34,070 --> 01:40:30,400
in other words perhaps one particular

2547
01:40:36,390 --> 01:40:34,080
ufo case or story is fabricated and

2548
01:40:38,870 --> 01:40:36,400
somebody on the inside spreads it

2549
01:40:41,430 --> 01:40:38,880
and then they carefully watch to see how

2550
01:40:44,390 --> 01:40:41,440
spread throughout ufology how the story

2551
01:40:46,149 --> 01:40:44,400
mutates how then you have ultimately

2552
01:40:47,990 --> 01:40:46,159
types who've come forward claiming to be

2553
01:40:50,390 --> 01:40:48,000
part of that program which never really

2554
01:40:51,990 --> 01:40:50,400
existed in other words you know there

2555
01:40:53,510 --> 01:40:52,000
could be this sort of psychological

2556
01:40:55,270 --> 01:40:53,520
angle that it's it's a good sort of

2557
01:40:57,030 --> 01:40:55,280
litmus test of how

2558
01:41:00,149 --> 01:40:57,040
rumors can be spread

2559
01:41:02,950 --> 01:41:00,159
and how the enemy possibly potential

2560
01:41:05,270 --> 01:41:02,960
enemies overseas might fall for the rose

2561
01:41:08,550 --> 01:41:05,280
as well and it's all done

2562
01:41:10,470 --> 01:41:08,560
via a non-existent ufo case so no real

2563
01:41:13,189 --> 01:41:10,480
seek it's ever compromised so i think

2564
01:41:15,669 --> 01:41:13,199
that's you know a possibility

2565
01:41:18,950 --> 01:41:15,679
a lot of reasons and ways why

2566
01:41:21,430 --> 01:41:18,960
the ufo community may have been targeted

2567
01:41:23,590 --> 01:41:21,440
in different ways to try and

2568
01:41:25,350 --> 01:41:23,600
engineer different results you know

2569
01:41:27,590 --> 01:41:25,360
whether to hide something or just see

2570
01:41:30,310 --> 01:41:27,600
like i said how to see how

2571
01:41:31,830 --> 01:41:30,320
rumors spread see what the the russians

2572
01:41:33,430 --> 01:41:31,840
think if we start saying we've got

2573
01:41:35,669 --> 01:41:33,440
crashed ufos

2574
01:41:36,709 --> 01:41:35,679
maybe sometimes it's it's been done even

2575
01:41:39,830 --> 01:41:36,719
to sort of

2576
01:41:41,669 --> 01:41:39,840
try and get russian spies in the us to

2577
01:41:43,590 --> 01:41:41,679
come out into the open you know maybe

2578
01:41:47,030 --> 01:41:43,600
they've been actively spying

2579
01:41:49,189 --> 01:41:47,040
on the ufo angle and so the government's

2580
01:41:51,590 --> 01:41:49,199
over emphasizes it and then suddenly you

2581
01:41:53,990 --> 01:41:51,600
know a guy named ivan gets arrested

2582
01:41:55,830 --> 01:41:54,000
because he you know he messed up and got

2583
01:41:58,070 --> 01:41:55,840
too close to the truth of something that

2584
01:42:00,229 --> 01:41:58,080
actually wasn't real but uh it resulted

2585
01:42:02,870 --> 01:42:00,239
in his arrest you know yeah especially

2586
01:42:04,390 --> 01:42:02,880
in the in the 50s and uh into the 60s i

2587
01:42:05,990 --> 01:42:04,400
would be very surprised if that

2588
01:42:07,510 --> 01:42:06,000
particular angle

2589
01:42:09,910 --> 01:42:07,520
wasn't uh

2590
01:42:11,669 --> 01:42:09,920
foremost in in some counterintelligence

2591
01:42:14,070 --> 01:42:11,679
officers minds and some of the programs

2592
01:42:16,229 --> 01:42:14,080
that they devised to flush these uh

2593
01:42:17,990 --> 01:42:16,239
these spies out it makes perfect sense

2594
01:42:19,830 --> 01:42:18,000
during the cold war especially

2595
01:42:22,070 --> 01:42:19,840
yeah and the important thing is no real

2596
01:42:24,070 --> 01:42:22,080
secret would have been compromised you

2597
01:42:27,189 --> 01:42:24,080
know it would all have been just a giant

2598
01:42:29,910 --> 01:42:27,199
ruse i think that probably has happened

2599
01:42:32,950 --> 01:42:29,920
but of course then it becomes a stable

2600
01:42:34,310 --> 01:42:32,960
part of the ufology and then it becomes

2601
01:42:37,109 --> 01:42:34,320
believed and

2602
01:42:39,109 --> 01:42:37,119
and that's the problem so

2603
01:42:40,870 --> 01:42:39,119
i think sometimes we should focus less

2604
01:42:44,229 --> 01:42:40,880
on investigating

2605
01:42:46,550 --> 01:42:44,239
ufo sightings and concentrate more on

2606
01:42:48,709 --> 01:42:46,560
who's telling the story and what's

2607
01:42:51,109 --> 01:42:48,719
what's their motivation and where did

2608
01:42:52,790 --> 01:42:51,119
they suddenly pop up from you know

2609
01:42:55,590 --> 01:42:52,800
well i i think the government is very

2610
01:42:57,030 --> 01:42:55,600
very interested in how memes propagate

2611
01:43:04,310 --> 01:42:57,040
how

2612
01:43:07,270 --> 01:43:04,320
whether they change at all

2613
01:43:10,629 --> 01:43:07,280
whether they attract other memes to them

2614
01:43:15,030 --> 01:43:12,310
it's just it makes perfect sense to me

2615
01:43:16,950 --> 01:43:15,040
that that that sort of uh interest would

2616
01:43:19,189 --> 01:43:16,960
be there in the government especially

2617
01:43:21,109 --> 01:43:19,199
when it comes to um intelligence uh

2618
01:43:23,189 --> 01:43:21,119
subjects and counterintelligence

2619
01:43:25,510 --> 01:43:23,199
subjects i think it makes perfect sense

2620
01:43:26,709 --> 01:43:25,520
and i would be very very surprised if if

2621
01:43:28,790 --> 01:43:26,719
this wasn't

2622
01:43:31,430 --> 01:43:28,800
one of the major

2623
01:43:33,350 --> 01:43:31,440
operative rationales for the government

2624
01:43:34,790 --> 01:43:33,360
being involved in the ufo subject area

2625
01:43:37,669 --> 01:43:34,800
in fact i think this would would be

2626
01:43:41,270 --> 01:43:37,679
probably one of the most uh important at

2627
01:43:42,950 --> 01:43:41,280
angles and aspects of their involvement

2628
01:43:45,109 --> 01:43:42,960
yeah and i think so many people in

2629
01:43:46,550 --> 01:43:45,119
ufology don't realize they never think

2630
01:43:49,030 --> 01:43:46,560
of that angle

2631
01:43:50,070 --> 01:43:49,040
all the focus is on the the incidents

2632
01:43:51,109 --> 01:43:50,080
you know

2633
01:43:53,430 --> 01:43:51,119
um

2634
01:43:56,870 --> 01:43:53,440
and that that may well have been to our

2635
01:43:58,790 --> 01:43:56,880
cost on on many occasions

2636
01:44:01,109 --> 01:43:58,800
just want to tell everybody that we have

2637
01:44:02,470 --> 01:44:01,119
a special feature of this show called

2638
01:44:03,830 --> 01:44:02,480
the power cast plus and i haven't

2639
01:44:05,510 --> 01:44:03,840
mentioned it before but i think it's

2640
01:44:07,109 --> 01:44:05,520
very important

2641
01:44:08,709 --> 01:44:07,119
in connection with what we've been

2642
01:44:11,750 --> 01:44:08,719
talking about here

2643
01:44:15,189 --> 01:44:11,760
because we offer an exclusive feature on

2644
01:44:17,590 --> 01:44:15,199
powercastplus called after the powercast

2645
01:44:18,830 --> 01:44:17,600
and it can be special interviews it can

2646
01:44:22,390 --> 01:44:18,840
be color

2647
01:44:24,070 --> 01:44:22,400
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2648
01:44:26,550 --> 01:44:24,080
monty shriver

2649
01:44:29,430 --> 01:44:26,560
and he is a former resident of aztec new

2650
01:44:31,830 --> 01:44:29,440
mexico who upon hearing about the

2651
01:44:35,030 --> 01:44:31,840
alleged crash at hearth canyon

2652
01:44:36,550 --> 01:44:35,040
decided to spend a year of his life

2653
01:44:38,229 --> 01:44:36,560
investigating

2654
01:44:39,830 --> 01:44:38,239
the case and looking into the three

2655
01:44:42,709 --> 01:44:39,840
books written on the subject that have

2656
01:44:45,109 --> 01:44:42,719
gotten so much attention

2657
01:44:47,430 --> 01:44:45,119
and what he found will be reported there

2658
01:44:49,910 --> 01:44:47,440
i think we all know they didn't find

2659
01:44:52,070 --> 01:44:49,920
anything that supports the case

2660
01:44:54,310 --> 01:44:52,080
and if you want to know more about

2661
01:44:56,669 --> 01:44:54,320
how to get after the powercast and join

2662
01:44:57,910 --> 01:44:56,679
the powercast plus go to

2663
01:44:59,910 --> 01:44:57,920
plus.theparacast.com that's

2664
01:45:02,070 --> 01:44:59,920
plus.thepowercast.com

2665
01:45:03,590 --> 01:45:02,080
we also give you the ad free or

2666
01:45:06,870 --> 01:45:03,600
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2667
01:45:09,990 --> 01:45:06,880
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2668
01:45:11,270 --> 01:45:10,000
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2669
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2670
01:45:16,310 --> 01:45:13,080
again that's

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01:45:18,550 --> 01:45:16,320
plus.thepowercast.com plus.powercast.com

2672
01:45:21,590 --> 01:45:18,560
the book under discussion the roswell

2673
01:45:22,790 --> 01:45:21,600
conspiracy nick redfearn sequel to body

2674
01:45:24,149 --> 01:45:22,800
snatchers

2675
01:45:25,750 --> 01:45:24,159
in the desert

2676
01:45:31,180 --> 01:45:25,760
more to come with gina and chris you're

2677
01:45:31,190 --> 01:45:40,229
[Music]

2678
01:45:44,990 --> 01:45:43,669
thank you for listening to gcn

2679
01:45:47,669 --> 01:45:45,000
be sure to visit

2680
01:45:50,070 --> 01:45:47,679
gcnlive.com today

2681
01:45:53,350 --> 01:45:50,080
we also have swag you know we have all

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2718
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the answer to being in control of your

2719
01:47:25,750 --> 01:47:23,520
own health care is freedom from

2720
01:47:27,910 --> 01:47:25,760
insurance become part of a group of

2721
01:47:30,070 --> 01:47:27,920
self-pay patients that come together to

2722
01:47:32,790 --> 01:47:30,080
share in each other's medical expenses

2723
01:47:35,750 --> 01:47:32,800
individual share amounts begin at 107 a

2724
01:47:37,590 --> 01:47:35,760
month and 347 for families choose from

2725
01:47:39,510 --> 01:47:37,600
three health sharing programs holistic

2726
01:47:41,350 --> 01:47:39,520
treatments may be eligible for sharing

2727
01:47:43,830 --> 01:47:41,360
see guidelines discount programs

2728
01:47:46,229 --> 01:47:43,840
available for dental vision and pharmacy

2729
01:47:56,470 --> 01:47:46,239
go to libertyoncall.org that's

2730
01:48:03,350 --> 01:47:59,669
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2731
01:48:04,629 --> 01:48:03,360
standard of paranormal radio

2732
01:48:07,910 --> 01:48:04,639
and now

2733
01:48:11,669 --> 01:48:07,920
here's jane steinberg

2734
01:48:17,350 --> 01:48:14,310
we continue with nick redfearn the final

2735
01:48:20,709 --> 01:48:17,360
four segments of the show the thing that

2736
01:48:23,030 --> 01:48:20,719
bothers me nick redfearn about all this

2737
01:48:26,310 --> 01:48:23,040
is can we all these years after these

2738
01:48:28,950 --> 01:48:26,320
crazy things happen can we really prove

2739
01:48:31,590 --> 01:48:28,960
what went on yeah that's a big question

2740
01:48:35,350 --> 01:48:31,600
and you know i'll be honest that's

2741
01:48:37,189 --> 01:48:35,360
so far there is no proof for any theory

2742
01:48:39,430 --> 01:48:37,199
on roswell i mean even the air force

2743
01:48:42,149 --> 01:48:39,440
said we think it's a mogul balloon that

2744
01:48:45,109 --> 01:48:42,159
came down to the ranch but all the mogul

2745
01:48:47,270 --> 01:48:45,119
records they found never actually

2746
01:48:49,990 --> 01:48:47,280
confirmed that one came down the ranch

2747
01:48:52,870 --> 01:48:50,000
and that was a problem you know now

2748
01:48:54,470 --> 01:48:52,880
another unfortunate angle is that nearly

2749
01:48:56,470 --> 01:48:54,480
all the people i spoke to the

2750
01:48:59,350 --> 01:48:56,480
alzheimer's said that because these

2751
01:49:01,910 --> 01:48:59,360
experiments were sort of semi-illegal if

2752
01:49:04,709 --> 01:49:01,920
not outright illegal you know taking you

2753
01:49:06,149 --> 01:49:04,719
know people's rights away and using them

2754
01:49:08,390 --> 01:49:06,159
as guinea pigs

2755
01:49:10,709 --> 01:49:08,400
when these programs were shut down when

2756
01:49:12,790 --> 01:49:10,719
the regular government realized what was

2757
01:49:15,510 --> 01:49:12,800
going on you know with these japanese

2758
01:49:17,510 --> 01:49:15,520
scientists almost being given free reign

2759
01:49:19,109 --> 01:49:17,520
but what happened was that the ones who

2760
01:49:21,750 --> 01:49:19,119
were sort of overseeing the programs

2761
01:49:23,750 --> 01:49:21,760
panicked and so the bodies were

2762
01:49:26,390 --> 01:49:23,760
destroyed there would be no point in

2763
01:49:29,430 --> 01:49:26,400
keeping the shredded balloons and etc so

2764
01:49:31,510 --> 01:49:29,440
they would just destroyed and the people

2765
01:49:32,390 --> 01:49:31,520
i spoke to said for as far as they are

2766
01:49:34,390 --> 01:49:32,400
aware

2767
01:49:38,149 --> 01:49:34,400
practically all the documentation was

2768
01:49:40,310 --> 01:49:38,159
destroyed as well to protect the guilty

2769
01:49:43,350 --> 01:49:40,320
now if that's true

2770
01:49:45,669 --> 01:49:43,360
then it may well be the case that we

2771
01:49:47,350 --> 01:49:45,679
could never prove it because the

2772
01:49:50,390 --> 01:49:47,360
documentation and everything else was

2773
01:49:52,229 --> 01:49:50,400
destroyed if aliens crashed then of

2774
01:49:53,990 --> 01:49:52,239
course the bodies would be preserved

2775
01:49:55,590 --> 01:49:54,000
because they would be so unique and

2776
01:49:58,070 --> 01:49:55,600
strange and they would be

2777
01:50:00,070 --> 01:49:58,080
put into like cryogenic storage for

2778
01:50:02,310 --> 01:50:00,080
decades you know forever as long as they

2779
01:50:04,310 --> 01:50:02,320
lasted the wreckage would be carefully

2780
01:50:05,990 --> 01:50:04,320
studied but if it really was just

2781
01:50:08,470 --> 01:50:06,000
balloon wreckage

2782
01:50:11,189 --> 01:50:08,480
lifting body type crafts and japanese

2783
01:50:13,590 --> 01:50:11,199
people prisoners handicapped people you

2784
01:50:16,709 --> 01:50:13,600
could see why they would just destroy

2785
01:50:19,750 --> 01:50:16,719
all that to check what happened but also

2786
01:50:21,910 --> 01:50:19,760
to leave absolutely no kind of trail

2787
01:50:23,750 --> 01:50:21,920
so you know that's kind of a bit of a

2788
01:50:25,990 --> 01:50:23,760
depressing for the you know the fact

2789
01:50:27,350 --> 01:50:26,000
we're trying to get the answers but

2790
01:50:29,910 --> 01:50:27,360
what i would say is that one of the

2791
01:50:32,390 --> 01:50:29,920
people's whose story a new story told in

2792
01:50:35,109 --> 01:50:32,400
the book came from a well-respected

2793
01:50:37,430 --> 01:50:35,119
australian ufo researcher uh keith

2794
01:50:40,070 --> 01:50:37,440
basterfield and keith shared with me a

2795
01:50:42,070 --> 01:50:40,080
story just after body snatches came out

2796
01:50:44,950 --> 01:50:42,080
because he'd been given keith lives in

2797
01:50:48,310 --> 01:50:44,960
australia as i said and before my book

2798
01:50:50,629 --> 01:50:48,320
came out he was approached by a guy

2799
01:50:52,550 --> 01:50:50,639
whose father was in british intelligence

2800
01:50:54,790 --> 01:50:52,560
and who had read files

2801
01:50:57,350 --> 01:50:54,800
in britain within mi5 which is the

2802
01:50:58,790 --> 01:50:57,360
british equivalent to the fbi he had

2803
01:51:02,149 --> 01:50:58,800
read files

2804
01:51:04,709 --> 01:51:02,159
on this whole japanese secret

2805
01:51:07,990 --> 01:51:04,719
experiments handicapped people high

2806
01:51:10,629 --> 01:51:08,000
altitude flights and apparently the

2807
01:51:12,950 --> 01:51:10,639
brits had uncovered something about this

2808
01:51:15,350 --> 01:51:12,960
and had put their own dos era together

2809
01:51:17,109 --> 01:51:15,360
on what had gone on so there could well

2810
01:51:18,070 --> 01:51:17,119
be light at the tunnel whereas perhaps a

2811
01:51:20,390 --> 01:51:18,080
lot of the

2812
01:51:22,229 --> 01:51:20,400
original files were destroyed but there

2813
01:51:24,709 --> 01:51:22,239
could have been sort of supplementary

2814
01:51:26,870 --> 01:51:24,719
material held by other agencies

2815
01:51:29,109 --> 01:51:26,880
that still tells the story of what

2816
01:51:31,510 --> 01:51:29,119
happened and keith baxterfield's uh

2817
01:51:33,189 --> 01:51:31,520
source who i interviewed just after the

2818
01:51:34,629 --> 01:51:33,199
book came out when keith put you in

2819
01:51:37,510 --> 01:51:34,639
touch with me he had a really

2820
01:51:39,910 --> 01:51:37,520
fascinating story to tell again of sort

2821
01:51:40,870 --> 01:51:39,920
of like a like a lifting uh body type

2822
01:51:42,709 --> 01:51:40,880
craft

2823
01:51:45,109 --> 01:51:42,719
lifted into the air into this massive

2824
01:51:47,669 --> 01:51:45,119
balloon array flown out of one of the

2825
01:51:49,189 --> 01:51:47,679
military bases in new mexico and coming

2826
01:51:51,109 --> 01:51:49,199
down on the ranch

2827
01:51:53,270 --> 01:51:51,119
and there being two crash sites

2828
01:51:55,189 --> 01:51:53,280
obviously the balloon wreckage would

2829
01:51:57,669 --> 01:51:55,199
would float down slowly because it was

2830
01:51:59,430 --> 01:51:57,679
so light but then because the aircraft

2831
01:52:01,270 --> 01:51:59,440
itself was so heavy that would just slam

2832
01:52:03,510 --> 01:52:01,280
to the ground so you had two

2833
01:52:04,629 --> 01:52:03,520
crash sites on the ranch and that's what

2834
01:52:06,870 --> 01:52:04,639
even the

2835
01:52:08,790 --> 01:52:06,880
the believers in the ufo angle have

2836
01:52:10,629 --> 01:52:08,800
suggested from all the testimony that

2837
01:52:12,950 --> 01:52:10,639
there were two sites

2838
01:52:15,589 --> 01:52:12,960
so in other words you know it's

2839
01:52:18,709 --> 01:52:15,599
we're still getting sources like keith

2840
01:52:21,589 --> 01:52:18,719
basterfield source uh coming through

2841
01:52:24,870 --> 01:52:21,599
even now and uh and putting this into

2842
01:52:28,470 --> 01:52:24,880
some very disturbing category but again

2843
01:52:29,589 --> 01:52:28,480
proving anything has so far has proved

2844
01:52:30,550 --> 01:52:29,599
to be

2845
01:52:32,149 --> 01:52:30,560
you know

2846
01:52:34,790 --> 01:52:32,159
we just haven't got there

2847
01:52:36,790 --> 01:52:34,800
and i'm not sure we ever will um i mean

2848
01:52:40,070 --> 01:52:36,800
one of the interesting things when the

2849
01:52:42,550 --> 01:52:40,080
air force uh did their study in 94 and

2850
01:52:44,790 --> 01:52:42,560
the uh general accounting office as it

2851
01:52:46,149 --> 01:52:44,800
was known back then was looking into it

2852
01:52:48,390 --> 01:52:46,159
they found that

2853
01:52:51,510 --> 01:52:48,400
all the outgoing uh records from roswell

2854
01:52:53,589 --> 01:52:51,520
from 45 to 50 were gone

2855
01:52:55,270 --> 01:52:53,599
you know and i mean that's a fact that

2856
01:52:57,030 --> 01:52:55,280
they were not where they should be they

2857
01:53:00,229 --> 01:52:57,040
they've been taken at some point in the

2858
01:53:03,270 --> 01:53:00,239
past nobody knew if it was 50 years ago

2859
01:53:04,790 --> 01:53:03,280
20 years ago or 24 hours before the

2860
01:53:07,669 --> 01:53:04,800
general accounting office started

2861
01:53:09,750 --> 01:53:07,679
looking for them um but they vanished

2862
01:53:12,870 --> 01:53:09,760
and they have not surfaced

2863
01:53:15,350 --> 01:53:12,880
since so that's what i mean about

2864
01:53:17,510 --> 01:53:15,360
the evidence the proof may well have

2865
01:53:18,470 --> 01:53:17,520
been sort of systematically destroyed or

2866
01:53:20,709 --> 01:53:18,480
hidden

2867
01:53:23,589 --> 01:53:20,719
swirled away or a combination of all

2868
01:53:25,350 --> 01:53:23,599
those scenarios just to make sure

2869
01:53:27,270 --> 01:53:25,360
there's nothing left that is going to

2870
01:53:29,270 --> 01:53:27,280
incriminate anybody

2871
01:53:30,310 --> 01:53:29,280
yeah you can you can rest assured that

2872
01:53:31,910 --> 01:53:30,320
all that

2873
01:53:34,950 --> 01:53:31,920
a lot of that documentation has been

2874
01:53:36,550 --> 01:53:34,960
destroyed if not all of it uh

2875
01:53:38,070 --> 01:53:36,560
there would be very little reason to

2876
01:53:40,149 --> 01:53:38,080
really have it around

2877
01:53:42,629 --> 01:53:40,159
yeah i mean that's the ironic thing is

2878
01:53:44,629 --> 01:53:42,639
that if it was a ufo crash everything

2879
01:53:47,350 --> 01:53:44,639
would be preserved and kept

2880
01:53:50,149 --> 01:53:47,360
if it was a dark and dirty experiment

2881
01:53:51,990 --> 01:53:50,159
arguably everything would be destroyed

2882
01:53:55,189 --> 01:53:52,000
you know there's sort of no middle

2883
01:53:57,030 --> 01:53:55,199
ground between the two really

2884
01:53:59,350 --> 01:53:57,040
yeah well there you go with that there

2885
01:54:01,189 --> 01:53:59,360
you go with that the fact that something

2886
01:54:03,510 --> 01:54:01,199
like that will disappear as quickly as

2887
01:54:05,990 --> 01:54:03,520
those trillions of dollars

2888
01:54:08,149 --> 01:54:06,000
of defense department money that

2889
01:54:10,709 --> 01:54:08,159
donald rumsfeld tried to find before 9

2890
01:54:14,870 --> 01:54:12,629
i'll go bye-bye

2891
01:54:17,109 --> 01:54:14,880
and i think also the one thing a lot of

2892
01:54:19,109 --> 01:54:17,119
people forget is the problem of who

2893
01:54:20,470 --> 01:54:19,119
exactly is overseeing

2894
01:54:22,550 --> 01:54:20,480
you know the truth of what happened at

2895
01:54:24,550 --> 01:54:22,560
roswell now

2896
01:54:27,350 --> 01:54:24,560
when the air force brought out their

2897
01:54:28,950 --> 01:54:27,360
reports you know that the mogul reports

2898
01:54:31,350 --> 01:54:28,960
um that's giving the mogul balloon

2899
01:54:32,629 --> 01:54:31,360
scenario and the crash test dummies a

2900
01:54:34,390 --> 01:54:32,639
lot of people said you know the air

2901
01:54:35,669 --> 01:54:34,400
force are lying they're the evil guys

2902
01:54:37,830 --> 01:54:35,679
etc

2903
01:54:40,070 --> 01:54:37,840
the more i looked into it and actually

2904
01:54:43,350 --> 01:54:40,080
looked into some of the surrounding

2905
01:54:45,589 --> 01:54:43,360
documentation not just the report

2906
01:54:48,390 --> 01:54:45,599
there's a i think there's a very

2907
01:54:51,070 --> 01:54:48,400
strong likelihood

2908
01:54:53,430 --> 01:54:51,080
that the air force of today and

2909
01:54:55,189 --> 01:54:53,440
1994-97 when they did their studies the

2910
01:54:56,870 --> 01:54:55,199
air force of today

2911
01:54:59,589 --> 01:54:56,880
i don't think actually does know what

2912
01:55:02,629 --> 01:54:59,599
happened at roswell now somebody may

2913
01:55:04,709 --> 01:55:02,639
well know the truth of these um

2914
01:55:07,510 --> 01:55:04,719
military experiments and they may well

2915
01:55:10,070 --> 01:55:07,520
have the files still hidden away but i i

2916
01:55:12,070 --> 01:55:10,080
honestly don't think today's air force

2917
01:55:14,070 --> 01:55:12,080
is in the loop for what happened back

2918
01:55:17,510 --> 01:55:14,080
then what i think is that

2919
01:55:20,070 --> 01:55:17,520
the the truth of this dark experiment

2920
01:55:22,790 --> 01:55:20,080
if it still remains hidden it's hidden

2921
01:55:24,790 --> 01:55:22,800
by sort of a an elite group with a an

2922
01:55:26,149 --> 01:55:24,800
elite need to know

2923
01:55:30,070 --> 01:55:26,159
and

2924
01:55:32,950 --> 01:55:30,080
the p the people who we think would know

2925
01:55:35,270 --> 01:55:32,960
like you know the director of the cia or

2926
01:55:37,510 --> 01:55:35,280
senior people in the pentagon they may

2927
01:55:39,189 --> 01:55:37,520
not know but somebody does but it could

2928
01:55:42,790 --> 01:55:39,199
be one of these what are known as

2929
01:55:44,229 --> 01:55:42,800
special access programs saps where it

2930
01:55:46,629 --> 01:55:44,239
doesn't even matter if you've got a top

2931
01:55:47,750 --> 01:55:46,639
secret clearance if you're not actually

2932
01:55:49,510 --> 01:55:47,760
given

2933
01:55:51,669 --> 01:55:49,520
you know the ability to join this

2934
01:55:55,830 --> 01:55:51,679
particular project you don't get in

2935
01:55:56,790 --> 01:55:55,840
regardless of your um secrecy level so i

2936
01:55:58,070 --> 01:55:56,800
think

2937
01:55:59,510 --> 01:55:58,080
you know when people point to the

2938
01:56:01,510 --> 01:55:59,520
government and say they're hiding the

2939
01:56:04,310 --> 01:56:01,520
truth of roswell or the air forces i'm

2940
01:56:05,990 --> 01:56:04,320
not at all sure they are i think we

2941
01:56:09,350 --> 01:56:06,000
could well be dealing with a group that

2942
01:56:10,790 --> 01:56:09,360
is so incredibly well buried that not

2943
01:56:12,310 --> 01:56:10,800
even the government

2944
01:56:14,310 --> 01:56:12,320
knows the elected government doesn't

2945
01:56:17,430 --> 01:56:14,320
even know what happened at roswell but

2946
01:56:19,030 --> 01:56:17,440
as i said someone does and that someone

2947
01:56:19,910 --> 01:56:19,040
may be the key to

2948
01:56:21,750 --> 01:56:19,920
you know

2949
01:56:23,350 --> 01:56:21,760
opening the door to this old museum

2950
01:56:24,550 --> 01:56:23,360
that's that tells the story of what

2951
01:56:27,270 --> 01:56:24,560
really happened

2952
01:56:29,189 --> 01:56:27,280
it's the warehouse 13.

2953
01:56:30,550 --> 01:56:29,199
yeah exactly like that yeah

2954
01:56:32,950 --> 01:56:30,560
the thing i always wonder about when

2955
01:56:35,430 --> 01:56:32,960
you're keeping secrets this long

2956
01:56:38,149 --> 01:56:35,440
is how it passes from

2957
01:56:41,750 --> 01:56:38,159
one generation to the next from

2958
01:56:44,310 --> 01:56:41,760
cia director to cia director or to

2959
01:56:46,790 --> 01:56:44,320
whatever agency is involved or perhaps

2960
01:56:48,790 --> 01:56:46,800
when people take up these positions

2961
01:56:50,629 --> 01:56:48,800
they are read in

2962
01:56:52,390 --> 01:56:50,639
and i also wonder in situations like

2963
01:56:54,390 --> 01:56:52,400
that whether a president of the united

2964
01:56:56,950 --> 01:56:54,400
states is ever

2965
01:56:58,709 --> 01:56:56,960
read in beyond maybe of course truman

2966
01:57:00,709 --> 01:56:58,719
and eisenhower for

2967
01:57:03,430 --> 01:57:00,719
obvious reasons

2968
01:57:05,109 --> 01:57:03,440
i think if it was a ufo event

2969
01:57:07,189 --> 01:57:05,119
at least some of them would be read into

2970
01:57:10,310 --> 01:57:07,199
it because it'd be so important

2971
01:57:11,910 --> 01:57:10,320
if it was just a massively embarrassing

2972
01:57:13,270 --> 01:57:11,920
series of experiments that have to be

2973
01:57:14,790 --> 01:57:13,280
hidden

2974
01:57:16,790 --> 01:57:14,800
they probably wouldn't tell them because

2975
01:57:19,350 --> 01:57:16,800
they'll be you know it could be hidden

2976
01:57:20,629 --> 01:57:19,360
without complicating situations

2977
01:57:23,270 --> 01:57:20,639
but i think

2978
01:57:25,430 --> 01:57:23,280
bringing people into the program

2979
01:57:27,510 --> 01:57:25,440
and hoping they're they're going to keep

2980
01:57:28,709 --> 01:57:27,520
quiet i think would actually work really

2981
01:57:31,030 --> 01:57:28,719
well

2982
01:57:33,430 --> 01:57:31,040
got more to come with nick redfern

2983
01:57:35,830 --> 01:57:33,440
exploring the roswell ufo conspiracy and

2984
01:57:40,810 --> 01:57:35,840
more with gene and chris you're in the

2985
01:57:49,510 --> 01:57:47,430
[Music]

2986
01:57:51,990 --> 01:57:49,520
neighbors i want to tell you about my

2987
01:57:54,390 --> 01:57:52,000
favorite graphics app it's the

2988
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award-winning graphic converter you know

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items underground or wrapping them in

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aluminum foil unlike other preps solarc

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install in less than an hour see for

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is energy insurance for your family

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yesterday i got a call from the irs they

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say i owe them over 16 000

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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

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comment or question about the paracast

3086
02:02:02,149 --> 02:01:58,960
send it to news at theparacast.com

3087
02:02:03,990 --> 02:02:02,159
that's news at the paracast.com

3088
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and don't forget to visit our famous

3089
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paracast community forums at

3090
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so let's continue with that lion

3091
02:02:16,790 --> 02:02:14,800
discussion nick redfearn about the

3092
02:02:18,870 --> 02:02:16,800
government and secrets

3093
02:02:21,030 --> 02:02:18,880
i think that if you know there are

3094
02:02:23,350 --> 02:02:21,040
people who from generation to generation

3095
02:02:25,350 --> 02:02:23,360
are brought into this project to hide

3096
02:02:28,229 --> 02:02:25,360
the truth of a domestic

3097
02:02:29,350 --> 02:02:28,239
disturbing human experiment or series of

3098
02:02:31,030 --> 02:02:29,360
experiments

3099
02:02:33,750 --> 02:02:31,040
i think it would actually be really easy

3100
02:02:35,669 --> 02:02:33,760
for the truth to be kept hidden because

3101
02:02:37,669 --> 02:02:35,679
if you imagine you know your average

3102
02:02:39,910 --> 02:02:37,679
politician or high ranking military

3103
02:02:42,709 --> 02:02:39,920
officer is brought into the program to

3104
02:02:45,589 --> 02:02:42,719
oversee for the next 10 years when they

3105
02:02:48,149 --> 02:02:45,599
realize that by releasing this it would

3106
02:02:51,030 --> 02:02:48,159
cause a major uproar all across the

3107
02:02:53,350 --> 02:02:51,040
country by default they're automatically

3108
02:02:55,910 --> 02:02:53,360
realized they can never talk about it

3109
02:02:57,430 --> 02:02:55,920
because it is something that would just

3110
02:02:59,589 --> 02:02:57,440
color the whole

3111
02:03:01,030 --> 02:02:59,599
history of you know the post-war era and

3112
02:03:03,270 --> 02:03:01,040
what was done in the name of national

3113
02:03:05,350 --> 02:03:03,280
security so i think there's this

3114
02:03:07,270 --> 02:03:05,360
immediate realization that

3115
02:03:08,790 --> 02:03:07,280
regardless of what they may have thought

3116
02:03:10,229 --> 02:03:08,800
about before they got into the program

3117
02:03:11,990 --> 02:03:10,239
that oh well i'm going to tell the world

3118
02:03:13,589 --> 02:03:12,000
what happened at roswell when they get

3119
02:03:16,390 --> 02:03:13,599
in and they see the impact it would have

3120
02:03:17,669 --> 02:03:16,400
on the government's credibility or its

3121
02:03:20,229 --> 02:03:17,679
appearance

3122
02:03:22,709 --> 02:03:20,239
they showed up and that may happen every

3123
02:03:24,870 --> 02:03:22,719
single time that when anybody is brought

3124
02:03:27,669 --> 02:03:24,880
into the program within seconds they

3125
02:03:28,950 --> 02:03:27,679
realize for the sake of the country as

3126
02:03:31,189 --> 02:03:28,960
they see it for the sake of the

3127
02:03:33,430 --> 02:03:31,199
government they can never talk about it

3128
02:03:36,070 --> 02:03:33,440
so in other words the the sheer

3129
02:03:39,030 --> 02:03:36,080
controversial nature of the event

3130
02:03:40,390 --> 02:03:39,040
dictates that people won't talk about it

3131
02:03:42,149 --> 02:03:40,400
all right we're looking at events

3132
02:03:44,629 --> 02:03:42,159
several decades ago that they want to

3133
02:03:46,790 --> 02:03:44,639
keep a secret does that imply they're

3134
02:03:48,870 --> 02:03:46,800
still doing things like that but maybe

3135
02:03:51,030 --> 02:03:48,880
have better ways to hide it

3136
02:03:53,030 --> 02:03:51,040
well i mean it's hard to say i mean you

3137
02:03:55,350 --> 02:03:53,040
know go back to what you said about sort

3138
02:03:57,589 --> 02:03:55,360
of fabricating abductions and things

3139
02:03:59,750 --> 02:03:57,599
like that i mean you know you have a lot

3140
02:04:01,750 --> 02:03:59,760
there's a whole sort of sub phenomena

3141
02:04:03,589 --> 02:04:01,760
within that area of research these

3142
02:04:06,790 --> 02:04:03,599
stories are like military abductions

3143
02:04:10,149 --> 02:04:06,800
milabs you know where people talk about

3144
02:04:12,470 --> 02:04:10,159
the military abducting abductees if that

3145
02:04:14,950 --> 02:04:12,480
is going on then you have to wonder

3146
02:04:16,550 --> 02:04:14,960
are they actually abducting

3147
02:04:19,109 --> 02:04:16,560
them to try and figure out what's going

3148
02:04:21,830 --> 02:04:19,119
on or are they actually creating these

3149
02:04:23,589 --> 02:04:21,840
abduction events i mean it's hard to say

3150
02:04:25,830 --> 02:04:23,599
well if you ask steven greer he'll tell

3151
02:04:27,990 --> 02:04:25,840
you every abduction is is the military

3152
02:04:29,830 --> 02:04:28,000
everyone the et's don't abduct people

3153
02:04:31,189 --> 02:04:29,840
because they're they're benevolent space

3154
02:04:33,350 --> 02:04:31,199
brothers and they would have no reason

3155
02:04:34,870 --> 02:04:33,360
to well you know i mean that's a perfect

3156
02:04:37,350 --> 02:04:34,880
example of where you know you have a

3157
02:04:38,790 --> 02:04:37,360
belief system that suggests that

3158
02:04:41,990 --> 02:04:38,800
abductions are

3159
02:04:44,070 --> 02:04:42,000
like again a domestic program but what i

3160
02:04:47,270 --> 02:04:44,080
would say is that when i've looked into

3161
02:04:49,990 --> 02:04:47,280
these examples of using psychological

3162
02:04:52,229 --> 02:04:50,000
warfare and disinformation to hide the

3163
02:04:54,229 --> 02:04:52,239
truth of something behind a ufo smoke

3164
02:04:55,910 --> 02:04:54,239
screen most of the cases that have

3165
02:04:59,750 --> 02:04:55,920
surfaced have been from sort of the late

3166
02:05:01,750 --> 02:04:59,760
40s through the 70s it's almost as if

3167
02:05:03,510 --> 02:05:01,760
it's been scaled down

3168
02:05:05,510 --> 02:05:03,520
you know in the last couple of decades

3169
02:05:07,669 --> 02:05:05,520
or perhaps we're just not finding the

3170
02:05:10,229 --> 02:05:07,679
cases but you know you look at things

3171
02:05:12,550 --> 02:05:10,239
like roswell aztec

3172
02:05:15,430 --> 02:05:12,560
some of these psychological warfare

3173
02:05:16,870 --> 02:05:15,440
programs you know the orpheo angelucci

3174
02:05:19,589 --> 02:05:16,880
things like that

3175
02:05:22,470 --> 02:05:19,599
they're all old cases so i do think

3176
02:05:24,470 --> 02:05:22,480
there's more of a likelihood that a lot

3177
02:05:25,990 --> 02:05:24,480
more of this went on in the early years

3178
02:05:29,030 --> 02:05:26,000
when they were trying to figure out how

3179
02:05:31,109 --> 02:05:29,040
the ufo subject could be manipulated and

3180
02:05:33,510 --> 02:05:31,119
that maybe now that they've realized how

3181
02:05:35,589 --> 02:05:33,520
it can be done they don't need to do the

3182
02:05:37,430 --> 02:05:35,599
tests anymore you know they don't need

3183
02:05:39,910 --> 02:05:37,440
to run the experiments because they've

3184
02:05:41,990 --> 02:05:39,920
got it down to a fine art you know they

3185
02:05:44,070 --> 02:05:42,000
just use it now when they need to well

3186
02:05:46,070 --> 02:05:44,080
maybe what they're doing now is the goal

3187
02:05:48,790 --> 02:05:46,080
of what all that experimentation was

3188
02:05:50,550 --> 02:05:48,800
meant to help them create

3189
02:05:53,030 --> 02:05:50,560
you know i mean the real conspiratorial

3190
02:05:55,510 --> 02:05:53,040
angle of all this is the idea of you

3191
02:05:57,189 --> 02:05:55,520
know a faked alien invasion to take away

3192
02:05:59,589 --> 02:05:57,199
even more of our rights and sort of

3193
02:06:01,669 --> 02:05:59,599
usher in a new world order where one day

3194
02:06:04,149 --> 02:06:01,679
we wake up and there's all these strange

3195
02:06:06,310 --> 02:06:04,159
craft in the skies and it's an alien

3196
02:06:08,550 --> 02:06:06,320
invasion but it actually isn't you know

3197
02:06:10,310 --> 02:06:08,560
it's big and burly military personnel

3198
02:06:13,270 --> 02:06:10,320
flying them but we don't get to see them

3199
02:06:15,109 --> 02:06:13,280
you know that's gran

3200
02:06:18,870 --> 02:06:15,119
yeah i mean that's at the real far end

3201
02:06:22,229 --> 02:06:18,880
of the sort of paranoid ufo conspiracy

3202
02:06:25,350 --> 02:06:22,239
scenarios the idea that all of this kind

3203
02:06:27,430 --> 02:06:25,360
of ufo encounters it's all fabricated

3204
02:06:29,510 --> 02:06:27,440
and it's all a build up across decades

3205
02:06:31,669 --> 02:06:29,520
to the day when it finally gives the

3206
02:06:33,830 --> 02:06:31,679
enslavement of the human race

3207
02:06:36,390 --> 02:06:33,840
occurs as a result of a fake day of the

3208
02:06:38,709 --> 02:06:36,400
invasion i mean could it happen well you

3209
02:06:41,990 --> 02:06:38,719
know false flags worked in the past

3210
02:06:44,470 --> 02:06:42,000
whether or not a worldwide false flag

3211
02:06:46,390 --> 02:06:44,480
to enslave the human race via a fake

3212
02:06:48,390 --> 02:06:46,400
alien invasion whether that could

3213
02:06:49,430 --> 02:06:48,400
actually be successfully achieved i

3214
02:06:51,189 --> 02:06:49,440
think that's

3215
02:06:53,350 --> 02:06:51,199
very unlikely

3216
02:06:55,510 --> 02:06:53,360
but there may be people who actually

3217
02:06:57,910 --> 02:06:55,520
think that yeah that could be achieved

3218
02:06:59,430 --> 02:06:57,920
you know carol rosen who was the last i

3219
02:07:01,910 --> 02:06:59,440
think an executive

3220
02:07:03,910 --> 02:07:01,920
assistant to warner von braun uh before

3221
02:07:06,390 --> 02:07:03,920
his death uh she claims that von braun

3222
02:07:08,229 --> 02:07:06,400
told her that there would be a series of

3223
02:07:10,870 --> 02:07:08,239
kind of strawmen or

3224
02:07:12,790 --> 02:07:10,880
subjects to galvanize the american

3225
02:07:15,430 --> 02:07:12,800
public the first of course would be

3226
02:07:17,030 --> 02:07:15,440
fascism the second communism the third

3227
02:07:18,950 --> 02:07:17,040
would be terrorism and the fourth would

3228
02:07:20,709 --> 02:07:18,960
be an alien invasion

3229
02:07:22,470 --> 02:07:20,719
it's not out of the realm of a

3230
02:07:24,069 --> 02:07:22,480
possibility you know there's this

3231
02:07:25,910 --> 02:07:24,079
tendency to think that if someone's

3232
02:07:28,149 --> 02:07:25,920
gonna do that they're gonna do it

3233
02:07:30,550 --> 02:07:28,159
overnight but maybe

3234
02:07:32,950 --> 02:07:30,560
if there is some truth to it that it

3235
02:07:35,189 --> 02:07:32,960
would be a dedicated group of powerful

3236
02:07:36,870 --> 02:07:35,199
figures might say well okay we're not

3237
02:07:39,030 --> 02:07:36,880
gonna do it overnight we may not even be

3238
02:07:41,350 --> 02:07:39,040
able to achieve in 20 years but across

3239
02:07:43,990 --> 02:07:41,360
50 60 years we can convince the world

3240
02:07:46,229 --> 02:07:44,000
that ufos are real and then after the

3241
02:07:48,950 --> 02:07:46,239
80th year we can play the card you know

3242
02:07:51,510 --> 02:07:48,960
the ice card and reel out from some

3243
02:07:53,990 --> 02:07:51,520
military base some secret place in the

3244
02:07:56,470 --> 02:07:54,000
ufos maybe you wouldn't even need a lot

3245
02:07:59,430 --> 02:07:56,480
just strategically place them over sort

3246
02:08:01,910 --> 02:07:59,440
of major cities uh one or two

3247
02:08:04,629 --> 02:08:01,920
you don't even have to have a display of

3248
02:08:07,030 --> 02:08:04,639
destroying a city because the people

3249
02:08:09,750 --> 02:08:07,040
pulling the strings could just say okay

3250
02:08:12,069 --> 02:08:09,760
martial law right now it's a major

3251
02:08:14,229 --> 02:08:12,079
worldwide emergency you know as long as

3252
02:08:16,229 --> 02:08:14,239
those things are hovering in the sky

3253
02:08:17,669 --> 02:08:16,239
your rights could be gone and it's not

3254
02:08:20,149 --> 02:08:17,679
like you know they've got like i said

3255
02:08:21,669 --> 02:08:20,159
have some huge independence day style

3256
02:08:23,270 --> 02:08:21,679
attack it's just the fact that things

3257
02:08:25,270 --> 02:08:23,280
are there in the sky

3258
02:08:27,750 --> 02:08:25,280
which would be easy to achieve would be

3259
02:08:30,709 --> 02:08:27,760
the goal and just let the whole thing

3260
02:08:33,030 --> 02:08:30,719
just work run itself really yeah

3261
02:08:36,069 --> 02:08:33,040
are as many people interested in ufos

3262
02:08:37,830 --> 02:08:36,079
today as there were 20 30 40 years ago

3263
02:08:40,149 --> 02:08:37,840
no but if every city had one of the

3264
02:08:41,990 --> 02:08:40,159
major city had one or two of these

3265
02:08:43,990 --> 02:08:42,000
things hovering in the sky

3266
02:08:46,310 --> 02:08:44,000
everybody would notice and if a

3267
02:08:48,830 --> 02:08:46,320
government spokesman goes on tv and says

3268
02:08:51,910 --> 02:08:48,840
this is happening across london moscow

3269
02:08:53,270 --> 02:08:51,920
peaking new york dc

3270
02:08:55,109 --> 02:08:53,280
they're not ours and they're not the

3271
02:08:57,109 --> 02:08:55,119
russians and we don't what's going to

3272
02:08:58,870 --> 02:08:57,119
happen so as a precaution

3273
02:09:00,149 --> 02:08:58,880
this is going to be a curfew there's

3274
02:09:01,830 --> 02:09:00,159
going to be

3275
02:09:04,870 --> 02:09:01,840
martial law

3276
02:09:07,030 --> 02:09:04,880
etc etc and it's all done just by these

3277
02:09:09,830 --> 02:09:07,040
things hanging in the sky no buildings

3278
02:09:11,750 --> 02:09:09,840
destroyed nothing it's just this is what

3279
02:09:12,790 --> 02:09:11,760
we've got to do because they're there

3280
02:09:15,189 --> 02:09:12,800
you know

3281
02:09:16,390 --> 02:09:15,199
yeah childhood's end uh the arthur c

3282
02:09:19,350 --> 02:09:16,400
clarke novel

3283
02:09:20,709 --> 02:09:19,360
well i've read up it's um i guess yeah

3284
02:09:22,550 --> 02:09:20,719
but it was the real thing in the in the

3285
02:09:23,910 --> 02:09:22,560
book they were real aliens and the

3286
02:09:26,069 --> 02:09:23,920
reason why they didn't come out for a

3287
02:09:29,669 --> 02:09:26,079
whole generation was because they looked

3288
02:09:33,189 --> 02:09:30,870
they didn't want to come out and freak

3289
02:09:34,629 --> 02:09:33,199
everybody out immediately

3290
02:09:36,790 --> 02:09:34,639
it's actually a very good book i've got

3291
02:09:39,910 --> 02:09:36,800
some questions here for you nick off the

3292
02:09:41,910 --> 02:09:39,920
forum where um our listeners can post

3293
02:09:42,709 --> 02:09:41,920
questions for our wonderful guests we

3294
02:09:45,030 --> 02:09:42,719
have

3295
02:09:48,069 --> 02:09:45,040
and nick boy this question

3296
02:09:50,629 --> 02:09:48,079
it is amazing i had no idea we had so

3297
02:09:52,870 --> 02:09:50,639
many aircraft accidents in the month of

3298
02:09:54,790 --> 02:09:52,880
july in 1947

3299
02:09:56,790 --> 02:09:54,800
but william strathman

3300
02:09:58,470 --> 02:09:56,800
it's amazing there's got to be

3301
02:10:00,870 --> 02:09:58,480
well over a hundred

3302
02:10:02,629 --> 02:10:00,880
accidents that occurred with the army

3303
02:10:04,310 --> 02:10:02,639
air force uh just in the month of

3304
02:10:05,830 --> 02:10:04,320
january july

3305
02:10:08,310 --> 02:10:05,840
1947

3306
02:10:10,149 --> 02:10:08,320
well over a hundred happened uh every

3307
02:10:13,109 --> 02:10:10,159
day there's at least five or six it

3308
02:10:15,109 --> 02:10:13,119
looks like here uh four or five at least

3309
02:10:17,430 --> 02:10:15,119
he says nick the following is a list of

3310
02:10:19,510 --> 02:10:17,440
uh united states army air force aviation

3311
02:10:22,149 --> 02:10:19,520
accidents just for the month of july

3312
02:10:24,310 --> 02:10:22,159
1947. let's continue that question our

3313
02:10:26,629 --> 02:10:24,320
next segment was just about out of time

3314
02:10:34,440 --> 02:10:26,639
and then we'll get more focused on it oh

3315
02:10:34,450 --> 02:10:38,560
[Music]

3316
02:10:43,189 --> 02:10:39,669
[Applause]

3317
02:10:44,430 --> 02:10:43,199
thank you for listening to gcn

3318
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3360
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3361
02:12:22,069 --> 02:12:20,000
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3370
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set of fluoride and arsenic filters for

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3397
02:13:55,589 --> 02:13:53,280
missed meals away from chaos those times

3398
02:13:57,270 --> 02:13:55,599
may be near think about it our country

3399
02:13:59,589 --> 02:13:57,280
faces multiple terrorist threats and

3400
02:14:01,510 --> 02:13:59,599
aggressions from russia and north korea

3401
02:14:03,350 --> 02:14:01,520
social unrest and violent marches yet

3402
02:14:05,350 --> 02:14:03,360
again may lead to looting of stores and

3403
02:14:06,950 --> 02:14:05,360
city shutdowns and our crumbling

3404
02:14:08,950 --> 02:14:06,960
infrastructure leaves our power grid

3405
02:14:11,350 --> 02:14:08,960
vulnerable to long-term outages from a

3406
02:14:12,950 --> 02:14:11,360
single cyber attack when the chaos from

3407
02:14:15,030 --> 02:14:12,960
any one of these threats arises the

3408
02:14:17,350 --> 02:14:15,040
government knows it can't provide during

3409
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a widespread national emergency that's

3410
02:14:21,430 --> 02:14:18,960
why you need your own plan for

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3422
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hi it's grant cameron from presidential

3423
02:15:09,109 --> 02:15:00,960
ufo.com you're listening to the paracast

3424
02:15:13,550 --> 02:15:11,430
so the second part of that question

3425
02:15:15,910 --> 02:15:13,560
chris from our forum at

3426
02:15:18,709 --> 02:15:15,920
form.powercast.com in the question bank

3427
02:15:19,990 --> 02:15:18,719
talking about a large number of aircraft

3428
02:15:21,910 --> 02:15:20,000
accidents

3429
02:15:23,910 --> 02:15:21,920
i'm absolutely amazed actually looking

3430
02:15:24,790 --> 02:15:23,920
at this huge list that goes on and on

3431
02:15:26,310 --> 02:15:24,800
and on

3432
02:15:27,910 --> 02:15:26,320
and of course they're they're from all

3433
02:15:30,550 --> 02:15:27,920
over the world but mostly in the united

3434
02:15:32,149 --> 02:15:30,560
states and what what he says is uh sorry

3435
02:15:33,589 --> 02:15:32,159
sorry that the list is so long but every

3436
02:15:35,990 --> 02:15:33,599
day there's some kind of aviation

3437
02:15:37,990 --> 02:15:36,000
accident on most days there's more more

3438
02:15:40,310 --> 02:15:38,000
than one and this doesn't even include

3439
02:15:41,910 --> 02:15:40,320
naval aviation either

3440
02:15:44,790 --> 02:15:41,920
so the point is instead of trying to

3441
02:15:46,950 --> 02:15:44,800
hide a top-secret aviation accident um

3442
02:15:49,189 --> 02:15:46,960
as a flying saucer crash which would

3443
02:15:51,030 --> 02:15:49,199
presumably generate all the more

3444
02:15:52,709 --> 02:15:51,040
interest why wouldn't the military

3445
02:15:54,790 --> 02:15:52,719
authorities just say the test vehicle

3446
02:15:59,030 --> 02:15:54,800
was some known aircraft that crashed

3447
02:16:02,310 --> 02:15:59,040
like a b-29 or a b-26 or a c-54 with

3448
02:16:04,790 --> 02:16:02,320
passengers etc and he notes that in this

3449
02:16:07,430 --> 02:16:04,800
list of accidents an xf-12 a very high

3450
02:16:09,350 --> 02:16:07,440
performance four-engine recon aircraft

3451
02:16:11,589 --> 02:16:09,360
is listed and so

3452
02:16:13,830 --> 02:16:11,599
if you look at this list it's just it's

3453
02:16:16,149 --> 02:16:13,840
jaw-dropping how many accidents we had

3454
02:16:18,950 --> 02:16:16,159
boy we must add a lot of rookie pilots

3455
02:16:21,589 --> 02:16:18,960
in the army air force in the summer of

3456
02:16:24,310 --> 02:16:21,599
47 because there's well over 100 here

3457
02:16:27,189 --> 02:16:24,320
there's got to be it's amazing well yeah

3458
02:16:28,790 --> 02:16:27,199
i mean the whole issue of

3459
02:16:31,270 --> 02:16:28,800
you know revealing what happened at

3460
02:16:33,750 --> 02:16:31,280
roswell back in 47 in the press

3461
02:16:36,070 --> 02:16:33,760
still kind of confuses a lot of people

3462
02:16:38,469 --> 02:16:36,080
even the air force in their report they

3463
02:16:40,950 --> 02:16:38,479
admitted they could not find an answer

3464
02:16:42,790 --> 02:16:40,960
as to why a statement was put out that a

3465
02:16:43,990 --> 02:16:42,800
flying disc came down now what we know

3466
02:16:46,309 --> 02:16:44,000
for sure

3467
02:16:48,790 --> 02:16:46,319
is that the first statement

3468
02:16:50,790 --> 02:16:48,800
was that it was a flying disc

3469
02:16:51,830 --> 02:16:50,800
now one of the things a lot of people

3470
02:16:54,629 --> 02:16:51,840
forget

3471
02:16:56,629 --> 02:16:54,639
is that this was only two weeks just two

3472
02:16:59,589 --> 02:16:56,639
weeks barely after the kenneth arnold

3473
02:17:00,549 --> 02:16:59,599
sighting flying saucer flying disc or

3474
02:17:01,750 --> 02:17:00,559
ufo

3475
02:17:03,669 --> 02:17:01,760
back then

3476
02:17:06,150 --> 02:17:03,679
didn't mean what it does

3477
02:17:08,070 --> 02:17:06,160
for us after 70 years of ufo encounters

3478
02:17:10,469 --> 02:17:08,080
this was just two weeks after the arnold

3479
02:17:12,790 --> 02:17:10,479
sighting there was no consensus on what

3480
02:17:15,349 --> 02:17:12,800
flying sources were you know you put

3481
02:17:17,669 --> 02:17:15,359
yourself in the mindset of somebody 47

3482
02:17:19,910 --> 02:17:17,679
and you think back just two weeks ago

3483
02:17:22,549 --> 02:17:19,920
and that was the very first mention ever

3484
02:17:23,589 --> 02:17:22,559
of flying discs and there was no history

3485
02:17:25,669 --> 02:17:23,599
of it

3486
02:17:27,030 --> 02:17:25,679
our views on ufos or flying this would

3487
02:17:28,950 --> 02:17:27,040
have been very different back then

3488
02:17:32,070 --> 02:17:28,960
because there was no history no books no

3489
02:17:34,790 --> 02:17:32,080
magazines no tv shows no movies nothing

3490
02:17:37,190 --> 02:17:34,800
so saying it was a flying disc back then

3491
02:17:39,830 --> 02:17:37,200
isn't the same way as saying it was an

3492
02:17:42,230 --> 02:17:39,840
alien spacecraft because as i said two

3493
02:17:44,870 --> 02:17:42,240
weeks the whole scenario what they are

3494
02:17:45,669 --> 02:17:44,880
hadn't sunk in or what they weren't

3495
02:17:47,990 --> 02:17:45,679
so

3496
02:17:50,549 --> 02:17:48,000
nobody knew i mean four people knew

3497
02:17:52,870 --> 02:17:50,559
flying discs back then were made of

3498
02:17:54,389 --> 02:17:52,880
balloon type wreckage nobody could say

3499
02:17:57,190 --> 02:17:54,399
otherwise because there was only two

3500
02:17:58,950 --> 02:17:57,200
weeks worth of sightings in other words

3501
02:18:01,830 --> 02:17:58,960
we have to sort of

3502
02:18:03,669 --> 02:18:01,840
try and forget not forget but realize

3503
02:18:04,790 --> 02:18:03,679
that as i said that flying disc back

3504
02:18:06,790 --> 02:18:04,800
then

3505
02:18:07,990 --> 02:18:06,800
implied something that had only been

3506
02:18:10,950 --> 02:18:08,000
around for two weeks we don't know what

3507
02:18:14,309 --> 02:18:10,960
it is versus what it is today after 70

3508
02:18:17,190 --> 02:18:14,319
years so that's an important angle now

3509
02:18:20,389 --> 02:18:17,200
one of the other angles is the fact that

3510
02:18:23,190 --> 02:18:20,399
we know that the rancher matt brazil got

3511
02:18:25,429 --> 02:18:23,200
to the wreckage before the military

3512
02:18:27,190 --> 02:18:25,439
and started talking about having found

3513
02:18:29,349 --> 02:18:27,200
this weird stuff and showing it to his

3514
02:18:32,309 --> 02:18:29,359
neighbors on the neighbouring ranches

3515
02:18:34,469 --> 02:18:32,319
taking it into town we have to remember

3516
02:18:36,870 --> 02:18:34,479
the only reason that the military was

3517
02:18:39,110 --> 02:18:36,880
out there was because they were told

3518
02:18:40,389 --> 02:18:39,120
that brazil had found it on his ranch

3519
02:18:42,070 --> 02:18:40,399
you know they were scrambling around

3520
02:18:43,990 --> 02:18:42,080
trying to find where this thing had come

3521
02:18:46,150 --> 02:18:44,000
down because by all accounts it was a

3522
02:18:49,110 --> 02:18:46,160
night flight when it went wrong

3523
02:18:51,669 --> 02:18:49,120
and so in other words the air force was

3524
02:18:53,990 --> 02:18:51,679
essentially forced to say something

3525
02:18:56,150 --> 02:18:54,000
because the civilians were on the site

3526
02:18:58,709 --> 02:18:56,160
before the military now had the military

3527
02:19:00,469 --> 02:18:58,719
got there first i i agree with the

3528
02:19:02,870 --> 02:19:00,479
person who asked the question there'll

3529
02:19:04,389 --> 02:19:02,880
be no need to create cover stories or

3530
02:19:07,110 --> 02:19:04,399
even mention it because they would have

3531
02:19:09,750 --> 02:19:07,120
cleaned the site up the fact that the

3532
02:19:10,950 --> 02:19:09,760
civilian population in lincoln county

3533
02:19:13,349 --> 02:19:10,960
and particularly the rancher and his

3534
02:19:15,589 --> 02:19:13,359
family got there first meant that the

3535
02:19:18,150 --> 02:19:15,599
cat was already out of the bag before

3536
02:19:20,389 --> 02:19:18,160
the military got there so then they had

3537
02:19:23,030 --> 02:19:20,399
to come up with an explanation and i

3538
02:19:25,589 --> 02:19:23,040
think kind of building it up as a flying

3539
02:19:28,230 --> 02:19:25,599
disc and then the next day dropping it

3540
02:19:28,950 --> 02:19:28,240
down as a weather balloon was kind of

3541
02:19:32,230 --> 02:19:28,960
like

3542
02:19:33,030 --> 02:19:32,240
whole

3543
02:19:34,549 --> 02:19:33,040
thing

3544
02:19:35,990 --> 02:19:34,559
and i think that was done deliberately

3545
02:19:37,750 --> 02:19:36,000
you know build it up people are full of

3546
02:19:39,990 --> 02:19:37,760
anticipation and then well it was just a

3547
02:19:41,509 --> 02:19:40,000
weather balloon and people move on i

3548
02:19:43,750 --> 02:19:41,519
think there was that aspect to it as

3549
02:19:46,709 --> 02:19:43,760
well well the fact though that the

3550
02:19:49,429 --> 02:19:46,719
roswell case basically stood dormant

3551
02:19:50,950 --> 02:19:49,439
after that until people like stanton and

3552
02:19:52,630 --> 02:19:50,960
friedman and william morris started

3553
02:19:56,070 --> 02:19:52,640
poking around

3554
02:19:58,230 --> 02:19:56,080
it worked yeah yeah well yeah that works

3555
02:19:59,830 --> 02:19:58,240
really well you know about angle on the

3556
02:20:02,070 --> 02:19:59,840
one hand if something

3557
02:20:05,190 --> 02:20:02,080
happens it disappoints you we're just

3558
02:20:07,030 --> 02:20:05,200
disappointed but if it's really built up

3559
02:20:09,510 --> 02:20:07,040
to be something huge

3560
02:20:11,429 --> 02:20:09,520
you end up even more disappointed you

3561
02:20:14,070 --> 02:20:11,439
know that's a good psychological tactic

3562
02:20:16,150 --> 02:20:14,080
don't just say it was a weather balloon

3563
02:20:18,309 --> 02:20:16,160
to start with let's really let's really

3564
02:20:19,510 --> 02:20:18,319
amp it up you know it's amp up the

3565
02:20:21,990 --> 02:20:19,520
intrigue

3566
02:20:23,590 --> 02:20:22,000
everybody's you know sort of um

3567
02:20:25,830 --> 02:20:23,600
clenching the fingers wondering what a

3568
02:20:27,270 --> 02:20:25,840
flying disc is and when it turns out to

3569
02:20:30,150 --> 02:20:27,280
be a weather balloon

3570
02:20:31,990 --> 02:20:30,160
everybody it really is depressed and oh

3571
02:20:34,469 --> 02:20:32,000
well you know we've been huddled in

3572
02:20:36,469 --> 02:20:34,479
front of the tv waiting and waiting and

3573
02:20:37,670 --> 02:20:36,479
now we've got this you know so in other

3574
02:20:39,910 --> 02:20:37,680
words the

3575
02:20:42,630 --> 02:20:39,920
the depressed kind of

3576
02:20:45,590 --> 02:20:42,640
angle of the mindset of the person you

3577
02:20:48,150 --> 02:20:45,600
know is sort of affected even more when

3578
02:20:49,670 --> 02:20:48,160
when it's elevated and then it drops so

3579
02:20:51,429 --> 02:20:49,680
you know that's a sort of little

3580
02:20:54,389 --> 02:20:51,439
psychological tool

3581
02:20:56,630 --> 02:20:54,399
that works really well you know um

3582
02:20:58,309 --> 02:20:56,640
and people did move on you know frank

3583
02:20:59,910 --> 02:20:58,319
edwards actually mentioned roswell in

3584
02:21:02,469 --> 02:20:59,920
one of his books but it was sort of a

3585
02:21:04,550 --> 02:21:02,479
little one paragraph or thereabouts

3586
02:21:06,630 --> 02:21:04,560
uh section and he got a lot of it wrong

3587
02:21:09,190 --> 02:21:06,640
but that wasn't his fault but yeah

3588
02:21:11,510 --> 02:21:09,200
you're right until late 70s when moore

3589
02:21:12,870 --> 02:21:11,520
and freedman got involved there really

3590
02:21:15,750 --> 02:21:12,880
wasn't much

3591
02:21:17,590 --> 02:21:15,760
going on after the initial announcement

3592
02:21:20,070 --> 02:21:17,600
that sorry guys it was just a weather

3593
02:21:22,070 --> 02:21:20,080
balloon nothing really went on at all

3594
02:21:23,190 --> 02:21:22,080
let's look at the conspiratorial side of

3595
02:21:25,510 --> 02:21:23,200
that though

3596
02:21:27,910 --> 02:21:25,520
so friedman just happens to hear about

3597
02:21:30,070 --> 02:21:27,920
this when he's doing a ufo

3598
02:21:32,630 --> 02:21:30,080
presentation i think at a tv station or

3599
02:21:34,469 --> 02:21:32,640
a lecture i forget the location but that

3600
02:21:36,389 --> 02:21:34,479
was broad i think it was louisiana yeah

3601
02:21:38,070 --> 02:21:36,399
it was louisiana was it okay so

3602
02:21:40,389 --> 02:21:38,080
basically the point being here he's

3603
02:21:42,790 --> 02:21:40,399
doing one of his ufo presentations

3604
02:21:44,309 --> 02:21:42,800
and he's approached by somebody with his

3605
02:21:46,230 --> 02:21:44,319
information that leads him to the

3606
02:21:49,190 --> 02:21:46,240
roswell investigation

3607
02:21:51,910 --> 02:21:49,200
was it an accident or deliberate

3608
02:21:54,389 --> 02:21:51,920
well i think i think it was just down to

3609
02:21:56,710 --> 02:21:54,399
just you know the fate of being in the

3610
02:21:57,990 --> 02:21:56,720
right place at the right time but what i

3611
02:22:00,790 --> 02:21:58,000
do think

3612
02:22:01,910 --> 02:22:00,800
is that whatever the scenario of roswell

3613
02:22:03,830 --> 02:22:01,920
really is

3614
02:22:04,950 --> 02:22:03,840
i think that when freedom and more got

3615
02:22:06,150 --> 02:22:04,960
onto it

3616
02:22:07,910 --> 02:22:06,160
that's when

3617
02:22:10,389 --> 02:22:07,920
you know one of these disinformation

3618
02:22:11,429 --> 02:22:10,399
programs really kicked into

3619
02:22:14,150 --> 02:22:11,439
um

3620
02:22:15,349 --> 02:22:14,160
you know it kicked in big time and i

3621
02:22:18,309 --> 02:22:15,359
think

3622
02:22:22,070 --> 02:22:18,319
maybe you know roswell had been left

3623
02:22:24,550 --> 02:22:22,080
to sort of you know just rot so to speak

3624
02:22:27,270 --> 02:22:24,560
purely and simply because it had been

3625
02:22:29,270 --> 02:22:27,280
hidden for so long that those hiding it

3626
02:22:30,870 --> 02:22:29,280
were confident that nothing was ever

3627
02:22:33,270 --> 02:22:30,880
come out because everybody had forgotten

3628
02:22:36,309 --> 02:22:33,280
about it you know and it was just gone

3629
02:22:38,389 --> 02:22:36,319
and lost and forgotten and when stanford

3630
02:22:41,590 --> 02:22:38,399
and bill moore started looking into it

3631
02:22:43,270 --> 02:22:41,600
the people hiding this were like oh no

3632
02:22:44,790 --> 02:22:43,280
there's a good chance you know this is

3633
02:22:46,790 --> 02:22:44,800
going to come out now or at least

3634
02:22:47,990 --> 02:22:46,800
partial parts of the story portions are

3635
02:22:51,429 --> 02:22:48,000
going to come out

3636
02:22:53,429 --> 02:22:51,439
and so i think that may well have been

3637
02:22:55,910 --> 02:22:53,439
sort of the you know the alarm bell

3638
02:22:58,630 --> 02:22:55,920
going off that set off

3639
02:23:01,990 --> 02:22:58,640
the idea of perhaps planting false

3640
02:23:04,550 --> 02:23:02,000
witnesses you know creating false rumors

3641
02:23:07,429 --> 02:23:04,560
ultimately false documents

3642
02:23:10,950 --> 02:23:07,439
to try and keep people anywhere possible

3643
02:23:13,670 --> 02:23:10,960
away from the human angle and just

3644
02:23:14,950 --> 02:23:13,680
keep spreading extraterrestrial ufo

3645
02:23:17,910 --> 02:23:14,960
stories

3646
02:23:20,630 --> 02:23:17,920
and it'll all be okay and maybe they're

3647
02:23:22,950 --> 02:23:20,640
even confident or fairly confident that

3648
02:23:25,990 --> 02:23:22,960
if all the documentation is stored into

3649
02:23:28,309 --> 02:23:26,000
some bunk of 50 feet underground

3650
02:23:29,990 --> 02:23:28,319
that the hard evidence can't be found

3651
02:23:31,910 --> 02:23:30,000
but you know there are indications that

3652
02:23:34,070 --> 02:23:31,920
some other agencies may have also had

3653
02:23:35,349 --> 02:23:34,080
their own files on these events so it

3654
02:23:38,389 --> 02:23:35,359
might not be that

3655
02:23:40,710 --> 02:23:38,399
clear cut but um i think definitely from

3656
02:23:43,030 --> 02:23:40,720
the late 70s onwards sort of counter

3657
02:23:44,710 --> 02:23:43,040
intelligence operation was put in place

3658
02:23:47,190 --> 02:23:44,720
to try and diffuse

3659
02:23:49,190 --> 02:23:47,200
people from getting close to whatever it

3660
02:23:52,389 --> 02:23:49,200
was that really happened right and then

3661
02:23:54,389 --> 02:23:52,399
ultimately it resulted in the

3662
02:23:55,990 --> 02:23:54,399
descending of the so-called mg12

3663
02:23:58,550 --> 02:23:56,000
documents to uh

3664
02:24:00,550 --> 02:23:58,560
to uh chandra and and more

3665
02:24:03,910 --> 02:24:00,560
and of course more more being a pivotal

3666
02:24:06,309 --> 02:24:03,920
uh figure uh in the uh initial roswell

3667
02:24:08,309 --> 02:24:06,319
book in investigation and

3668
02:24:10,309 --> 02:24:08,319
ultimately admitting that he was part of

3669
02:24:12,469 --> 02:24:10,319
a disinformation program with uh air

3670
02:24:14,230 --> 02:24:12,479
force intelligence so

3671
02:24:17,030 --> 02:24:14,240
there's there's too many smoking guns

3672
02:24:18,790 --> 02:24:17,040
and too many uh too many coincidences

3673
02:24:21,270 --> 02:24:18,800
for my my taste for the government not

3674
02:24:23,510 --> 02:24:21,280
to be involved in some form of of uh

3675
02:24:25,030 --> 02:24:23,520
bait and switch or disinformation we're

3676
02:24:27,429 --> 02:24:25,040
going to switch to another segment of

3677
02:24:38,070 --> 02:24:27,439
the show with nick redfern and gene

3678
02:24:38,080 --> 02:24:42,790
thank you for listening to gcn

3679
02:24:47,270 --> 02:24:43,710
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3680
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3689
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3776
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[Music]

3777
02:28:57,190 --> 02:28:54,960
is jerome survivalistcamps.com author of

3778
02:28:59,930 --> 02:28:57,200
the ufo encyclopedia in other books

3779
02:29:09,910 --> 02:28:59,940
you're listening to the peercast

3780
02:29:11,270 --> 02:29:09,920
[Music]

3781
02:29:13,830 --> 02:29:11,280
i can just see

3782
02:29:15,270 --> 02:29:13,840
william moore writing up mj12 do you

3783
02:29:17,830 --> 02:29:15,280
think more did it

3784
02:29:20,230 --> 02:29:17,840
no no i don't people a lot of people do

3785
02:29:22,870 --> 02:29:20,240
i actually dance at all i don't think

3786
02:29:24,070 --> 02:29:22,880
that the mj-12 documents are genuine but

3787
02:29:25,110 --> 02:29:24,080
i do think

3788
02:29:27,429 --> 02:29:25,120
somebody

3789
02:29:29,429 --> 02:29:27,439
was deeply concerned about the fact that

3790
02:29:31,670 --> 02:29:29,439
bill moore really had dug deep into

3791
02:29:33,429 --> 02:29:31,680
roswell you know in the early 80s i mean

3792
02:29:36,790 --> 02:29:33,439
he was looking for all sorts of leads

3793
02:29:39,830 --> 02:29:36,800
and sources and with elderly witnesses

3794
02:29:42,389 --> 02:29:39,840
and i think somebody was concerned

3795
02:29:44,870 --> 02:29:42,399
and was trying to you know push him down

3796
02:29:46,550 --> 02:29:44,880
another avenue which you know arguably

3797
02:29:48,790 --> 02:29:46,560
did happen with people like bill moore

3798
02:29:51,670 --> 02:29:48,800
and stanford that they did focus a great

3799
02:29:53,349 --> 02:29:51,680
deal of their time on those documents

3800
02:29:56,150 --> 02:29:53,359
and maybe that was the the point all

3801
02:29:58,469 --> 02:29:56,160
along i can easily see when in 47 in

3802
02:30:00,630 --> 02:29:58,479
july 47 the whole thing was sorry it was

3803
02:30:02,950 --> 02:30:00,640
just a weather balloon i can easily see

3804
02:30:06,070 --> 02:30:02,960
how from 47 to about

3805
02:30:08,469 --> 02:30:06,080
77 there probably wasn't even any kind

3806
02:30:11,110 --> 02:30:08,479
of campaign to hide this because he was

3807
02:30:14,150 --> 02:30:11,120
just hidden away there was no need to

3808
02:30:15,750 --> 02:30:14,160
create programs at least to diffuse

3809
02:30:17,670 --> 02:30:15,760
people away from roswell because no one

3810
02:30:20,309 --> 02:30:17,680
was talking about roswell but then all

3811
02:30:23,429 --> 02:30:20,319
of a sudden in the late 70s and early

3812
02:30:25,670 --> 02:30:23,439
80s within ufology everybody's talking

3813
02:30:27,270 --> 02:30:25,680
about roswell it becomes somebody's

3814
02:30:29,429 --> 02:30:27,280
major nightmare

3815
02:30:31,590 --> 02:30:29,439
so they have to try and do something

3816
02:30:34,710 --> 02:30:31,600
about it and i think like i said

3817
02:30:37,910 --> 02:30:34,720
spreading false witnesses grooming fake

3818
02:30:40,070 --> 02:30:37,920
witnesses pushing people down the fake

3819
02:30:42,469 --> 02:30:40,080
document angle where time's taken up

3820
02:30:44,870 --> 02:30:42,479
going to archives and trying to find

3821
02:30:47,750 --> 02:30:44,880
similar documents or regardless of what

3822
02:30:50,389 --> 02:30:47,760
you think of the mj-12 investigations

3823
02:30:52,870 --> 02:30:50,399
there's no doubt that people like stan

3824
02:30:55,590 --> 02:30:52,880
spent an incredible amount of time

3825
02:30:57,590 --> 02:30:55,600
researching those documents could that

3826
02:30:59,990 --> 02:30:57,600
have been that time applied to

3827
02:31:02,230 --> 02:31:00,000
investigating roswell the case yes it

3828
02:31:04,710 --> 02:31:02,240
could and maybe that was the agenda that

3829
02:31:07,270 --> 02:31:04,720
these people had was to let's just get

3830
02:31:09,349 --> 02:31:07,280
these people tied up spending hours and

3831
02:31:11,429 --> 02:31:09,359
weeks and months at archives and

3832
02:31:13,429 --> 02:31:11,439
studying the signatures on the mj-12

3833
02:31:14,469 --> 02:31:13,439
documents you know the witnesses who

3834
02:31:16,230 --> 02:31:14,479
could actually tell something are

3835
02:31:18,389 --> 02:31:16,240
getting older and older and closer to

3836
02:31:20,070 --> 02:31:18,399
the grave and you know keeping these

3837
02:31:21,670 --> 02:31:20,080
people away a bit longer and push them

3838
02:31:23,750 --> 02:31:21,680
down another avenue

3839
02:31:25,830 --> 02:31:23,760
hopefully from their perspective again

3840
02:31:28,389 --> 02:31:25,840
it would keep people away from the case

3841
02:31:30,550 --> 02:31:28,399
itself and actually

3842
02:31:32,710 --> 02:31:30,560
have them following this sort of spin

3843
02:31:35,510 --> 02:31:32,720
off aspects of it which had no truth to

3844
02:31:37,190 --> 02:31:35,520
them and i'm looking at here these mj12

3845
02:31:39,830 --> 02:31:37,200
documents the fact that there were so

3846
02:31:42,230 --> 02:31:39,840
many different types of documents

3847
02:31:44,710 --> 02:31:42,240
of a similar vein and they're placed

3848
02:31:45,670 --> 02:31:44,720
there for people like the woods to look

3849
02:31:48,950 --> 02:31:45,680
into

3850
02:31:50,790 --> 02:31:48,960
place there when stan friedman is

3851
02:31:51,910 --> 02:31:50,800
judiciously looking through all these

3852
02:31:53,830 --> 02:31:51,920
documents

3853
02:31:56,469 --> 02:31:53,840
that's pretty crazy when you think about

3854
02:31:59,750 --> 02:31:56,479
it to me this strongly points in the

3855
02:32:02,150 --> 02:31:59,760
direction of an ongoing campaign

3856
02:32:04,630 --> 02:32:02,160
to keep people away from getting to the

3857
02:32:06,550 --> 02:32:04,640
heart of roswell whatever it is and i

3858
02:32:09,190 --> 02:32:06,560
think it's an ongoing thing

3859
02:32:11,510 --> 02:32:09,200
it's of such importance for whatever

3860
02:32:14,389 --> 02:32:11,520
reason that it can know the truth can

3861
02:32:16,150 --> 02:32:14,399
never be let out now a pro ufo person

3862
02:32:19,110 --> 02:32:16,160
would say well the information could

3863
02:32:22,550 --> 02:32:19,120
never get out because it will prove that

3864
02:32:23,990 --> 02:32:22,560
ufos exist the government's lied etc etc

3865
02:32:25,429 --> 02:32:24,000
we're not alone in the universe it'll be

3866
02:32:27,510 --> 02:32:25,439
a major story and they don't want to

3867
02:32:30,150 --> 02:32:27,520
reveal it on the other hand if it was a

3868
02:32:32,790 --> 02:32:30,160
secret experiment the truth could

3869
02:32:36,389 --> 02:32:32,800
arguably still be seen as we can never

3870
02:32:39,349 --> 02:32:36,399
release it because of the ramifications

3871
02:32:41,270 --> 02:32:39,359
of the abuses that went on in these

3872
02:32:43,030 --> 02:32:41,280
experiments so

3873
02:32:45,510 --> 02:32:43,040
whatever the truth is

3874
02:32:48,230 --> 02:32:45,520
somebody wants this hidden for

3875
02:32:50,870 --> 02:32:48,240
either the alien technology angle or the

3876
02:32:52,870 --> 02:32:50,880
embarrassment angle of releasing you

3877
02:32:55,030 --> 02:32:52,880
know this dark story

3878
02:32:57,750 --> 02:32:55,040
so whether or not we'll ever get the

3879
02:32:59,590 --> 02:32:57,760
truth or whether it's a case that

3880
02:33:02,550 --> 02:32:59,600
you know this program will continue

3881
02:33:04,150 --> 02:33:02,560
until everybody involved is dead

3882
02:33:06,070 --> 02:33:04,160
you know and then they'll breathe a

3883
02:33:06,790 --> 02:33:06,080
collective sigh of relief or whatever

3884
02:33:08,550 --> 02:33:06,800
and

3885
02:33:10,630 --> 02:33:08,560
say okay

3886
02:33:12,630 --> 02:33:10,640
now there's no chance of anybody getting

3887
02:33:15,349 --> 02:33:12,640
anything aren't we pretty close to that

3888
02:33:17,429 --> 02:33:15,359
now though well yeah like i said the one

3889
02:33:18,790 --> 02:33:17,439
bit of light at the end of the tunnel is

3890
02:33:20,950 --> 02:33:18,800
the fact that

3891
02:33:23,590 --> 02:33:20,960
although most of the people i spoke to

3892
02:33:25,349 --> 02:33:23,600
said that for fear of being hauled

3893
02:33:28,230 --> 02:33:25,359
before a you know a committee or

3894
02:33:31,429 --> 02:33:28,240
whatever in jail that they did try and

3895
02:33:34,309 --> 02:33:31,439
destroy the entire trail of what went on

3896
02:33:36,790 --> 02:33:34,319
documents the balloon wreckage files

3897
02:33:39,270 --> 02:33:36,800
everything but also there's still a lot

3898
02:33:40,790 --> 02:33:39,280
of these stories where people claim to

3899
02:33:42,870 --> 02:33:40,800
have read some of these files years

3900
02:33:44,550 --> 02:33:42,880
later not the original roswell files but

3901
02:33:46,469 --> 02:33:44,560
ones that other agencies had put

3902
02:33:48,790 --> 02:33:46,479
together but where they were trying to

3903
02:33:50,550 --> 02:33:48,800
figure out what had happened and that

3904
02:33:52,630 --> 02:33:50,560
kind of seems like the case with keith

3905
02:33:54,710 --> 02:33:52,640
basterfield's source who i talk about in

3906
02:33:57,750 --> 02:33:54,720
the book whose father worked for mi5 and

3907
02:33:59,429 --> 02:33:57,760
mi5 apparently had been trying to figure

3908
02:34:00,150 --> 02:33:59,439
out what had gone on at roswell as well

3909
02:34:02,630 --> 02:34:00,160
and

3910
02:34:05,190 --> 02:34:02,640
god had their own sources so there is a

3911
02:34:07,510 --> 02:34:05,200
chance and i think a good chance that

3912
02:34:10,150 --> 02:34:07,520
certain agencies even if they don't have

3913
02:34:13,429 --> 02:34:10,160
the original files they have records

3914
02:34:14,389 --> 02:34:13,439
that do tell the real story and it only

3915
02:34:17,429 --> 02:34:14,399
needs

3916
02:34:19,190 --> 02:34:17,439
one archivist to make a mistake you know

3917
02:34:21,110 --> 02:34:19,200
something gets put in the wrong folder

3918
02:34:23,670 --> 02:34:21,120
something gets declassified even just

3919
02:34:25,830 --> 02:34:23,680
one page which seemingly looks innocuous

3920
02:34:26,950 --> 02:34:25,840
but there's a you know a paragraph in

3921
02:34:29,590 --> 02:34:26,960
there that

3922
02:34:31,830 --> 02:34:29,600
is contains a smoking gun i mean

3923
02:34:34,070 --> 02:34:31,840
it's kind of like which you may know of

3924
02:34:37,510 --> 02:34:34,080
the the so-called raimi memo which is in

3925
02:34:39,270 --> 02:34:37,520
this photograph of general raymie

3926
02:34:41,510 --> 02:34:39,280
overseeing you know this pile of

3927
02:34:43,590 --> 02:34:41,520
wreckage in fort worth which they claim

3928
02:34:45,190 --> 02:34:43,600
was what was actually found at roswell

3929
02:34:46,710 --> 02:34:45,200
and general raymond is holding this

3930
02:34:48,870 --> 02:34:46,720
piece of paper in his hand and when it's

3931
02:34:51,030 --> 02:34:48,880
been blown up and studied a number of

3932
02:34:53,910 --> 02:34:51,040
researchers like david rodiak have

3933
02:34:56,630 --> 02:34:53,920
suggested that the words victims of the

3934
02:34:59,429 --> 02:34:56,640
wreck can be seen now whether or not

3935
02:35:00,870 --> 02:34:59,439
that is what the actual wordings are the

3936
02:35:03,230 --> 02:35:00,880
important thing is

3937
02:35:05,990 --> 02:35:03,240
something like that something so

3938
02:35:07,510 --> 02:35:06,000
unconventional and unforeseen and

3939
02:35:09,270 --> 02:35:07,520
unplanned for

3940
02:35:10,710 --> 02:35:09,280
something like that could happen i think

3941
02:35:12,469 --> 02:35:10,720
that could blow the whole thing wide

3942
02:35:14,870 --> 02:35:12,479
open do you think it's going to happen

3943
02:35:18,150 --> 02:35:14,880
in our lifetime though well as long as

3944
02:35:20,870 --> 02:35:18,160
we keep pushing and we're not driven by

3945
02:35:22,790 --> 02:35:20,880
emotion to the point where we avoid

3946
02:35:25,670 --> 02:35:22,800
looking into certain angles because we

3947
02:35:27,910 --> 02:35:25,680
don't want the roswell case to be upset

3948
02:35:30,550 --> 02:35:27,920
yeah i think the problem is most people

3949
02:35:32,870 --> 02:35:30,560
have investigated roswell have done so

3950
02:35:36,550 --> 02:35:32,880
from the perspective of trying to and

3951
02:35:39,590 --> 02:35:36,560
expecting to find an alien answer if you

3952
02:35:42,710 --> 02:35:39,600
go into it totally unbiased with no

3953
02:35:44,469 --> 02:35:42,720
preconceived i want to believe scenario

3954
02:35:47,030 --> 02:35:44,479
in your mind and just go where the

3955
02:35:48,790 --> 02:35:47,040
evidence leads even if it kind of

3956
02:35:51,270 --> 02:35:48,800
makes you think well you know all this

3957
02:35:53,190 --> 02:35:51,280
research into ufos was pointless just

3958
02:35:55,750 --> 02:35:53,200
keep looking for it i mean that's all we

3959
02:35:57,670 --> 02:35:55,760
can do we can keep pushing and pushing

3960
02:35:59,830 --> 02:35:57,680
and pushing it's like they say if you

3961
02:36:03,270 --> 02:35:59,840
put your mind to it you can do anything

3962
02:36:05,110 --> 02:36:03,280
and you can and maybe the unforeseen

3963
02:36:07,590 --> 02:36:05,120
thing like the memo you know the victims

3964
02:36:09,670 --> 02:36:07,600
of the wreck i think that's how it might

3965
02:36:11,750 --> 02:36:09,680
come out that somebody will be digging

3966
02:36:13,429 --> 02:36:11,760
and digging the people on the inside

3967
02:36:16,150 --> 02:36:13,439
will be thinking we've got it all nailed

3968
02:36:17,990 --> 02:36:16,160
down and then just something just some

3969
02:36:18,870 --> 02:36:18,000
little thing brings the entire house

3970
02:36:20,950 --> 02:36:18,880
down

3971
02:36:23,830 --> 02:36:20,960
and i wonder what kind of coverage this

3972
02:36:26,469 --> 02:36:23,840
would get after so many years

3973
02:36:29,110 --> 02:36:26,479
oh well i actually think the idea that

3974
02:36:31,190 --> 02:36:29,120
the ufo community was wrong what you

3975
02:36:33,429 --> 02:36:31,200
would get to start with the one angle

3976
02:36:35,990 --> 02:36:33,439
would be you know the media would be

3977
02:36:37,750 --> 02:36:36,000
sort of poking fun at ufology and saying

3978
02:36:40,870 --> 02:36:37,760
oh after all these years you know

3979
02:36:42,309 --> 02:36:40,880
ufology was wrong and all these people

3980
02:36:44,389 --> 02:36:42,319
have wasted their lives there would be

3981
02:36:46,790 --> 02:36:44,399
that angle but then when the penny

3982
02:36:49,750 --> 02:36:46,800
dropped and if the story's true

3983
02:36:53,030 --> 02:36:49,760
and you know the major news outlets

3984
02:36:55,190 --> 02:36:53,040
realized that there were these terrible

3985
02:36:58,309 --> 02:36:55,200
sort of crimes against humanity in the

3986
02:37:00,150 --> 02:36:58,319
name of furthering early rocketry and

3987
02:37:02,309 --> 02:37:00,160
you know high altitude flights and

3988
02:37:04,550 --> 02:37:02,319
things like this then it would be

3989
02:37:07,270 --> 02:37:04,560
something along the lines of the

3990
02:37:09,190 --> 02:37:07,280
tongosky experiment you know as i said

3991
02:37:10,870 --> 02:37:09,200
earlier on with the president clinton

3992
02:37:13,750 --> 02:37:10,880
committee that was set up in the early

3993
02:37:15,910 --> 02:37:13,760
90s to look at these abuses where people

3994
02:37:17,910 --> 02:37:15,920
have been used in radiation experiments

3995
02:37:19,910 --> 02:37:17,920
from the 40s onwards it would be

3996
02:37:21,590 --> 02:37:19,920
something like that it would become like

3997
02:37:23,110 --> 02:37:21,600
an investigative

3998
02:37:26,950 --> 02:37:23,120
journalistic

3999
02:37:29,990 --> 02:37:26,960
study of you know a dark period in the

4000
02:37:31,510 --> 02:37:30,000
immediate post war era nick redfearn

4001
02:37:33,110 --> 02:37:31,520
where can we find more of your stuff

4002
02:37:34,950 --> 02:37:33,120
well all the books include the new one

4003
02:37:37,349 --> 02:37:34,960
you can get on amazon some of them in

4004
02:37:39,110 --> 02:37:37,359
barnes and noble and people can reach me

4005
02:37:42,150 --> 02:37:39,120
at my blog which is called world of

4006
02:37:43,469 --> 02:37:42,160
whatever and the address is nick redfern

4007
02:37:46,830 --> 02:37:43,479
fortian

4008
02:37:49,830 --> 02:37:46,840
f-o-r-t-e-a-n nick redfearn40

4009
02:37:52,550 --> 02:37:49,840
blogspot.com or nick redfern ufo at

4010
02:37:53,990 --> 02:37:52,560
twitter or just lobby up on facebook

4011
02:37:56,070 --> 02:37:54,000
there's a bunch of nick redfearns but

4012
02:37:58,710 --> 02:37:56,080
you'll see me on there oh yeah he's

4013
02:38:01,750 --> 02:37:58,720
unmistakable you'll never miss this one

4014
02:38:04,469 --> 02:38:01,760
we're found on twitter as the powercast

4015
02:38:06,070 --> 02:38:04,479
we have powercast fan clubs on facebook

4016
02:38:08,389 --> 02:38:06,080
we have the powercast plus go to

4017
02:38:10,710 --> 02:38:08,399
plus.powercast.com

4018
02:38:13,190 --> 02:38:10,720
we feature the commercial free version

4019
02:38:15,510 --> 02:38:13,200
of this show to subscribers the after

4020
02:38:18,550 --> 02:38:15,520
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4021
02:38:20,870 --> 02:38:18,560
includes monty shriver someone who lived

4022
02:38:22,389 --> 02:38:20,880
in aztec new mexico when that crash

4023
02:38:24,710 --> 02:38:22,399
allegedly occurred

4024
02:38:26,950 --> 02:38:24,720
and he says no it didn't you'll hear the

4025
02:38:30,230 --> 02:38:26,960
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4026
02:38:33,990 --> 02:38:30,240
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4027
02:38:36,910 --> 02:38:34,000
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4028
02:38:38,230 --> 02:38:36,920
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4029
02:38:42,150 --> 02:38:38,240
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4030
02:38:46,950 --> 02:38:44,630
another exciting journey with nick

4031
02:38:48,230 --> 02:38:46,960
redfearn thank you for joining us on the

4032
02:38:51,320 --> 02:38:48,240
power cast

4033
02:39:04,230 --> 02:38:51,330
well thanks guys thanks a lot

4034
02:39:09,990 --> 02:39:07,110
the powercast featuring jean steinberg

4035
02:39:12,950 --> 02:39:10,000
and christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

4036
02:39:14,710 --> 02:39:12,960
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4037
02:39:18,870 --> 02:39:14,720
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